on naruto and characterization...

[askerian]

recycled Naruto rant that makes me come off like an elitist, controlling bitch.

I don't begrudge people the right to enjoy fics using a looser sense of canon, they can be very fun as well; I just get a bit twitchy when that fanon is so accepted that it becomes strange to actually use stuff that's not totally raping canon. Also, I desperately needed something to rant about, so here. Whatever.

oh god i can't read NaruSasu fics anymore, I just can't find any new fics that don't make me barf. noooo. I don't want to lose all enjoyment of that pairing, damn it, they're the closest thing I've ever had to an OTP. T_T /whine

Comments

[animeprincess.livejournal.com]

*read...applause* Even if you think you sound like an elitist bitch(maybe you are, eh, i'm probably one about some of my own things), you've taken the time to think about the characterizations of Naruto. he's not Generic!bishounen number 2, he's "'Dobe' Uzumaki Naruto", and he's got enough guts, luck, and random silliness and cheerfulness to go around.

i'm not so much of a hand at writing, and what i do write is most likely OOC, which is why i don't do it often. i'm gonna try to find more Naruto fics other than yours that are good even though yours make my inner puppy roll over and beg for bellypettins.

*hugs* i'm so sorry about your doggy. /comfort

[askerian]

##._.##

Bah! You can't get better if you don't write more. :p

oooh, if you find any good fics, plz gimmegimme~

*cuddles* s'alright.

[persepolis130.livejournal.com]

When a pairing becomes so common, I think it tends to turn to crap because every tom dick and harry (I need to not hang out around my grandparents so much so I don't come up with expressions like that) decides they're qualified to write one. Happens with any over-done pairing. And with something that's been done so much, it's practically impossible to write something that hasn't already been written about...

[askerian]

yeah. *sigh* I know all that, and I even understand why people would like it, but it still grates on my nerves. ZOMG fandom, how dare you not provide what I want. XD

[kylara.livejournal.com]

After reading that I have to run to class so I can't say much right now. I just basically want to tell you that it was beautiful. I've always loved your representation of Team 7, and I thought that was an excellent rant/character analysis.

[askerian]

#.__.#

*squishloves?*

[askerian]

The sasunaru comm maks me barf. It's chock-full of suave dark-and-handsome-knight!Sasuke and silly, cute, doe-eyed!naruto. =_= wtf people. The narusasu comm is a liiiittle better, if only because they don't pussify naruto (they make him more strong-manly-rawr instead), but then they tend to make sasuke into a bitchy girl.

Both sides tend to think that some buttsex and flowers will make Sasuke forget about his issues and Itachi. Uh huh. And i've got a bridge to sell you...

[miwa.livejournal.com]

I love you.

[askerian]

#^^# ♥

[silverkiiri.livejournal.com]

I. Love. You.

Thank you for saying this. I don't read most people's fic, since fandom scared me away, so mostly I'm safe for this. If it isn't on or rec'd by my f-list, chances are I'll never see it.

But most people aren't that lucky.

And if you're an elitist bitch, well, we like you that way. ^^ /hug

[askerian]

#u.u# *cuddlelove*

yeah, I only read recced stuff nowadays. T_T I've become so picky.

[dacaktty.livejournal.com]

I love you. Really. *glompattack from a long time lurker XP*

Have you read GigaBomb's "A Fox and Shark Walk Into A Bar"? It's really good, it's also a WIP ;_; It doensn't have any pairings so far, but it's really good. Also, Itachi is in it. A lot. *prods you* Reeeaaaaad eeeeeeeeet.

Augh..I'm inchoherent.

*slinks off*

....

*slinks back in because she forgot the url -.-*

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1978502/1/

[askerian]

hee! Yeah, i've read it -- or started to. I stopped following after a while because, while it was a great interpretation of divergent history, it still didn't give much Team Seven closeness, and i'm all about team seven ^^; It's definitely a good fic, though. ^__^

[cindelius.livejournal.com]

*nods head sadly* I agree with you on every aspect of that rant. Now if only we could record this and play it in the ears of Naruto authors around the world at night. I don't find it elitist; I find it honest and appreciative of an imagination and writing talent that can work within the limitations (ie canon characterization and/or plotlines) that are presented.

I wonder if part of the reason that I've turned into a nearly OT3-only shipper in this particular fandom is in order to have my individual pairings done correctly. :o* Seriously. Some of the best Sasuke/Naruto moments that I've come across have been inside of an OT3 fic. It seems like the percentage of goodfic for bisexual threesomes is much greater than that for popular single pairings. For the most part (I admit that there are some exceptions, and they are painful), bisexual threesome and complicated triangle fics tend to:

*be written by authors who have a better grasp of canon since, to begin with, they address multiple characters (pairing authors seem to resort to killing one off or denying an existing bond/attraction, so that their OTP remains intact and without the complications that the show presents)
*be handled in a mature manner (perhaps this is because they're written by people who tend to be a little older? Very few twelve year-olds are mature enough to think of a threesome without disgust or giggling their asses off.)
*explore sexuality better in general
*enjoy the characters for who they are, not feeling the need to rewrite entire pasts

So, when they have my ever-favorite Sasuke/Naruto (sasunarusasunaru or whatever to show that they're equals), the pairing is written well. All of which you most likely already knew (:op), but it's a fairly new revelation for me that I'm getting most of my good slash from OT3's.

[askerian]

XD;;;; meep.

It's scary. i've turned telepathic with two people today. Just had a conversation about how at least in Team Seven threesomes, neither of the boys were turned into a girl -- Sakura was already the girl. XD It helps a lot with the IC-ness.

I agree totally with your analysis -- for this threesome to work, you've got to think about it a little more than "teehee, they're cute together, I'm gonna shoves them into traditional romance stereotypes." Besides lots of fanbrats are allergic to girls, so it keeps the idiot bashers away. XD

[lukita.livejournal.com]

That sounds like the Naruto I love from canon and that wasn't elitst at all, you were just giving advice on Naruto's characterzation. Though I prefer to think that the Third was the first person to accept Naruto, even if he didn't say it.

*hugs* Sorry about your puppy.

[askerian]

hee.

and the third accepted naruto first, but by his position he had to keep a distance between them, and so i'm not sure naruto entirely noticed, or maybe it just felt like the old man was nice, not like he especially loved him. the third had a whole village to look out for. iruka, now, in a way it's closer to adoption.

*cuddle*

[know-your-story.livejournal.com]

Word.

I'm afraid some of my early Naruto fanfic had him more angsty than he should be, but I'm trying to be better about it now. >.> Live and learn, I guess. XD

A lovely rant, though. :) I can't stand weepy!uke!Naruto. At all. XP Which is one of the reasons I read your stuff. ;P
~A

[askerian]

Well, lots of people like writing or reading angst (i did at some point XD), so it's not as bad, besides angst fics are a normal subgenre. So really, angsting them up a bit is not a horrible thing to do. :p

#^^# ♥

[farfallanera.livejournal.com]

You didn't sound like an elitist bitch at at all; that was one of the most well-written rants I've seen on Naruto's characterization in a long time. ^_^

And yeah. I can't read NaruSasu anymore. There isn't really anything decent left. >_> That's why I turned to NaruSasuSaku -- those tend to be pretty well-written. ;)

[askerian]

♥

friendseded!! ohnoes!! :3

[dirtyoldlady.livejournal.com]

Naruto: woe, my life is horrible, I must now cut myself to get rid of the pain...
Kyuubi: WTF, bitch. *heals*

You so totally win. XD

[askerian]

That was originally sailor_comet's. But I love it so much I think i'm gonna make it an icon or something. 9_9

Lurker

[(Anonymous)]

*Reads rant* Thank you.

Re: Lurker

[askerian]

*hugs* thanks^^

[scorpionocean.livejournal.com]

*loves on* I love Naruto ♥ lovely rant. have my babies? you'll have to keep them though cause I dont like kids.

[askerian]

I, uh, don't like kids either. How about we have cats? ^-^;

[aconite.livejournal.com]

*applauds* That was perfect for so many reasons and I wish more people understood canon the way you do. After the millionth sad/emo/stupid/depressed/hyper/whatever!Naruto fic I passed up I started to wonder if maybe there are two Naruto mangas and I'm reading a different one.

Also Besides, when he cries, it's big, manly, snotty tears that leave him grimacing and red-faced, not pearls of crystalline liquid falling from his luminous cerulean irises made me laugh. :D

[askerian]

#._.#

yeah, "are we reading the same manga?" is a common question nowadays. =__= *squishloves*

[decorchan.livejournal.com]

If that's what an elitist bitch sound like, we should all be elitist bitches.

[askerian]

XD *bitches with* ♥

[forelyse.livejournal.com]

As many people have said before me, that was the best rant on Naruto canon ever. I love reading it since at every other sentence I starting cheering and growling and yelling a very supportive "yeah!". Kudos to you.

[askerian]

#._.# ♥

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

God, yes. YES YES YES. afjdslk just looking into the Naruto yaoi fandom makes me hurt even more than the Naruto het fandom (which is pretty damn bad). All the cutesy uke Naruto afjdlskfjdskl.

I'm sorry, that wasn't very coherent. D: But there need to be more smackdowns like this. If it gives people joy to write sweet little uke Naruto, then whatever, but it's still bad fanfic and we have every right to mock it. Especially when they start whining over how horrible NaruSasu is because omg, seme!Naruto is the most horrible thing ever, worse than war or death or drugs or disease! (I have literally seen someone say that.)

Makes me want to write something like this for Sasuke.

Sasuke IS:
1) Broken
2) A child
3) Important to Naruto and Sakura

Sasuke IS NOT:
1) Evil
2) A rapist
3) Secretly in love with [Naruto/Itachi/Neji/Sakura/Hinata/Ino/Your Mary Sue]

And so on. :X

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

You're making me want to rant about Sasuke some more. I think I write him best and I scream 'NO!' about him the most when I read fic.

True.

[matthias-drake.livejournal.com]

But nonetheless, I suddenly want to see if these rules can all be violated simultaneously.

Re: True.

[trypton88.livejournal.com]

[crazy-toffee.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you on all points. That's not an elitist rant, it's the absolute god-given truth. XD Plus, it really makes me want to write BETTER SasuNaru, because there's just SO MUCH to be done with them, and... you're right. There's very little good!fic going around presently. =_=

[askerian]

ohh yeah, you need to write more stuff. *prods you* ♥♥♥

I think part of my frustration is that I want more NaruSasu fic... and I can't write it myself anymore. Everything goes team Seven for me. =__=;; I'm trying and trying to find plot, and it isn't coming. arrgh.

[maldoror-gw.livejournal.com]

Sweetie, you have to stop reading fics at random. It's way too depressing to see your OTP raped and mangled and turned into barbie dolls. Only read things that were recced by people you trust to point you to a really good fic. Why do you think I asked you for a list of fics all those months ago, rather than hop over to the Naruto section in AFF.net? If I'd done that latter, I'd have never written a single word of Naruto. (If I'd checked out ff.net, I'd have not written a single word of anything beyond a brief suicide note blaming it on the Mary Sues).

99% of the stuff out there is trash. SOme of it is uber-trash from twelve-year old girls with life experience you could fit into their cell-phone cases and with huge entitlement issues; other fics are fairly well-meaning but cookie-cutter plots/characterisation that take the easy way out, as Sol says, because the authors have this one shiny idea, and all the rest of that, you know, story-telling stuff is boring. Hell, most of the readers find it boring too. They just want to get to the lemon, and then the wedding or romance or ever-afters or Twue Luv.

If you read too many of these fics - say, three, in my case - you get massively annoyed, start to wonder why you bother, and why the hell are you writing fanfiction for anyway. I only plough through aff.net or other such once in a blue moon. To remind myself how not to do it. The last time was this weekend. I opened a fic at random which had had a fair amount of reviews and promised some lemony SasuNaru goodness. Within the first paragraph, a dark-brooding Sasuke watched his cute boyfriend prance around the room, flying around like a social butterfly. Then Sasuke thinks to himself 'that's so cute'.

I didn't even need to read the rest. That Back button fairly burned, baby. Then I hit Forward again just to prove to myself that yes, I had guessed correctly who would be uke after the very first sentence (no prizes for figuring it out, really).

Don't go making yourself sick over your own OTP, that'd be a pity. But good rant ^_^ Half rant, half accurate character analysis, really. I'd like to print your rant out, roll it up like newspaper and use it to beat about the head of some of the worse offenders, but alas, that's physically impossible...

[askerian]

yeah but if we never keep a lookout for new writers, we'll never find them and be awed by their shinyness. T_T but it hurts to be disappointed again and again.

XD three? wow, your bullshit tolerance is even lower than mine.

One of my problems is that I want to write narusasu, but nothing comes. I still love them to death, but i can't write them on their own, and I want to, if only to prove that I can do it. But I can't find a good plot that would treat Sakura right. Guh.

[whytecrow.livejournal.com]

Yes, you are SO right. Seriously. Characterizations of many Naruto characters have gone down the toilets lately with few exceptions, and it has slowly been eating away at my brain.

Thank gawd for your and [not enough] others' stories. I'd be brainless without them.

Friended XD.

[askerian]

*gasp* friendeded!! ohnoes!! :O

♥

[arcanetheorem.livejournal.com]

http://arcanetheorem.livejournal.com/12462.html

I don't know if you've read this post that I put up on my LJ a while ago when people asked the age-old question on SasuxNaru LJ community: Who is really uke, and who is really seme?

You might not agree with my view, and you might think I'm a bit optimistic on how their relationship might be like, but I totally agree with your post: Naruto is sometimes downright disgusting, rude (at times), and more manly than any other character I can really think of in Naruto. Writers, I've found, like to distort the truth of canon to better fit their own 'fantasy,' as well as others', so that they have a better 'reading experience'.

Though, what I've found interesting, in all my years of reading NaruSasu/SasuNaru, is that most authors tend to shy away from the 'squick mechanics of gay sex' --- i.e.: skid marks, ineloquent sex sounds, and sticky nether regions. Though, most telling of this, is the blatant ommittance of STDs and venerial diseases in Naruto (as well as many, many other fandoms). I don't think I've *ever* read or heard of a fic involving yaoi pairings that has a main character have AIDS/HIV... It's like, the ultimate taboo...

Anyway, thought you might be interested in it, and feel free to completely blast my particular observences ;D

Great post ^^

[complexphoenix.livejournal.com]

I once read a fic in which Sasuke gets AIDS. It was, however, very badly written, with OOC characters and a plot that seemed like the author was gushing and not thinking things through. The first chapter was ok and it all went downhill from there.

Possibly the truest rant I've ever read.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, another one of those doesn't-have-an-LJ-and-usually-just-lurks-
on-other-peoples'-but-was-so-wowed-by-a-particular-post-that-she-just-had-to-
reply-anonymously-at-last people here. ::wave:: XD

Just wanted to say: I love you. I mean, I already did (everything you write is great), but, you know. I love you *more* now.


1) NARUTO DOES NOT WANGST OVER HIS SAD PAST.

YES.


He's not going to cry because of a sad song or because someone's mean to him -- if someone's mean to him, either they're a friend and he'll yell back or sulk, or they're an enemy and they'll get a fist in the face.

YES.


12) The ability to give up on Sasuke. Ever, ever, ever.

And at the risk of sounding repetetive... YES. Dear god, yes. That last point in particular, the manga has only been proving more and more each week, and yet some people still refuse to acknowledge it. ::sigh::

I wish there was some way to make that required reading for anyone who wants to write a Naruto fanfic. Because, YES. I think Naruto may actually be more consistently portrayed OOC in fanfic than Sasuke is (which is saying a lot). It gets to the point where you start feeling ridiculously outnumbered by all those people writing uke! and angsty! and whomgsmart!/whomgretarded!Naruto, which is... depressing. So thank you for posting that rant--it's a relief to see I'm not the only one. You are awesome. XD

-Spectrum

Re: Possibly the truest rant I've ever read.

[askerian]

heh ^____^ *squishpets*


Well, it might also be because Sasuke fits the typical dark, brooding, handsome profile more than Naruto ever will fit the "heroine" profile -- and as well all know, if they don't fit in the stereotypes, it's not a true romance. =_=

[trypton88.livejournal.com]

[lissiel.livejournal.com]

Ok, though, the thing about being bi, is that you can be perfectly satisfied in a relationship with just one person of a given gender. So if he's in love with sasuke, it's not necissarily relavent that he likes boobies. Cause bi doens't equal zOMGSLUT. (which people love to write. Why? Cries )