on naruto and characterization...

[askerian]

recycled Naruto rant that makes me come off like an elitist, controlling bitch.

I don't begrudge people the right to enjoy fics using a looser sense of canon, they can be very fun as well; I just get a bit twitchy when that fanon is so accepted that it becomes strange to actually use stuff that's not totally raping canon. Also, I desperately needed something to rant about, so here. Whatever.

oh god i can't read NaruSasu fics anymore, I just can't find any new fics that don't make me barf. noooo. I don't want to lose all enjoyment of that pairing, damn it, they're the closest thing I've ever had to an OTP. T_T /whine

Comments

[animeprincess.livejournal.com]

*read...applause* Even if you think you sound like an elitist bitch(maybe you are, eh, i'm probably one about some of my own things), you've taken the time to think about the characterizations of Naruto. he's not Generic!bishounen number 2, he's "'Dobe' Uzumaki Naruto", and he's got enough guts, luck, and random silliness and cheerfulness to go around.

i'm not so much of a hand at writing, and what i do write is most likely OOC, which is why i don't do it often. i'm gonna try to find more Naruto fics other than yours that are good even though yours make my inner puppy roll over and beg for bellypettins.

*hugs* i'm so sorry about your doggy. /comfort

[persepolis130.livejournal.com]

When a pairing becomes so common, I think it tends to turn to crap because every tom dick and harry (I need to not hang out around my grandparents so much so I don't come up with expressions like that) decides they're qualified to write one. Happens with any over-done pairing. And with something that's been done so much, it's practically impossible to write something that hasn't already been written about...

[askerian]

yeah. *sigh* I know all that, and I even understand why people would like it, but it still grates on my nerves. ZOMG fandom, how dare you not provide what I want. XD

[kylara.livejournal.com]

After reading that I have to run to class so I can't say much right now. I just basically want to tell you that it was beautiful. I've always loved your representation of Team 7, and I thought that was an excellent rant/character analysis.

[askerian]

##._.##

Bah! You can't get better if you don't write more. :p

oooh, if you find any good fics, plz gimmegimme~

*cuddles* s'alright.

[askerian]

#.__.#

*squishloves?*

[miwa.livejournal.com]

I love you.

[silverkiiri.livejournal.com]

I. Love. You.

Thank you for saying this. I don't read most people's fic, since fandom scared me away, so mostly I'm safe for this. If it isn't on or rec'd by my f-list, chances are I'll never see it.

But most people aren't that lucky.

And if you're an elitist bitch, well, we like you that way. ^^ /hug

[dacaktty.livejournal.com]

I love you. Really. *glompattack from a long time lurker XP*

Have you read GigaBomb's "A Fox and Shark Walk Into A Bar"? It's really good, it's also a WIP ;_; It doensn't have any pairings so far, but it's really good. Also, Itachi is in it. A lot. *prods you* Reeeaaaaad eeeeeeeeet.

Augh..I'm inchoherent.

*slinks off*

....

*slinks back in because she forgot the url -.-*

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1978502/1/

[cindelius.livejournal.com]

*nods head sadly* I agree with you on every aspect of that rant. Now if only we could record this and play it in the ears of Naruto authors around the world at night. I don't find it elitist; I find it honest and appreciative of an imagination and writing talent that can work within the limitations (ie canon characterization and/or plotlines) that are presented.

I wonder if part of the reason that I've turned into a nearly OT3-only shipper in this particular fandom is in order to have my individual pairings done correctly. :o* Seriously. Some of the best Sasuke/Naruto moments that I've come across have been inside of an OT3 fic. It seems like the percentage of goodfic for bisexual threesomes is much greater than that for popular single pairings. For the most part (I admit that there are some exceptions, and they are painful), bisexual threesome and complicated triangle fics tend to:

*be written by authors who have a better grasp of canon since, to begin with, they address multiple characters (pairing authors seem to resort to killing one off or denying an existing bond/attraction, so that their OTP remains intact and without the complications that the show presents)
*be handled in a mature manner (perhaps this is because they're written by people who tend to be a little older? Very few twelve year-olds are mature enough to think of a threesome without disgust or giggling their asses off.)
*explore sexuality better in general
*enjoy the characters for who they are, not feeling the need to rewrite entire pasts

So, when they have my ever-favorite Sasuke/Naruto (sasunarusasunaru or whatever to show that they're equals), the pairing is written well. All of which you most likely already knew (:op), but it's a fairly new revelation for me that I'm getting most of my good slash from OT3's.

[askerian]

hee! Yeah, i've read it -- or started to. I stopped following after a while because, while it was a great interpretation of divergent history, it still didn't give much Team Seven closeness, and i'm all about team seven ^^; It's definitely a good fic, though. ^__^

[askerian]

The sasunaru comm maks me barf. It's chock-full of suave dark-and-handsome-knight!Sasuke and silly, cute, doe-eyed!naruto. =_= wtf people. The narusasu comm is a liiiittle better, if only because they don't pussify naruto (they make him more strong-manly-rawr instead), but then they tend to make sasuke into a bitchy girl.

Both sides tend to think that some buttsex and flowers will make Sasuke forget about his issues and Itachi. Uh huh. And i've got a bridge to sell you...

[askerian]

#u.u# *cuddlelove*

yeah, I only read recced stuff nowadays. T_T I've become so picky.

[askerian]

XD;;;; meep.

It's scary. i've turned telepathic with two people today. Just had a conversation about how at least in Team Seven threesomes, neither of the boys were turned into a girl -- Sakura was already the girl. XD It helps a lot with the IC-ness.

I agree totally with your analysis -- for this threesome to work, you've got to think about it a little more than "teehee, they're cute together, I'm gonna shoves them into traditional romance stereotypes." Besides lots of fanbrats are allergic to girls, so it keeps the idiot bashers away. XD

[askerian]

#^^# ♥

[lukita.livejournal.com]

That sounds like the Naruto I love from canon and that wasn't elitst at all, you were just giving advice on Naruto's characterzation. Though I prefer to think that the Third was the first person to accept Naruto, even if he didn't say it.

*hugs* Sorry about your puppy.

[know-your-story.livejournal.com]

Word.

I'm afraid some of my early Naruto fanfic had him more angsty than he should be, but I'm trying to be better about it now. >.> Live and learn, I guess. XD

A lovely rant, though. :) I can't stand weepy!uke!Naruto. At all. XP Which is one of the reasons I read your stuff. ;P
~A

[farfallanera.livejournal.com]

You didn't sound like an elitist bitch at at all; that was one of the most well-written rants I've seen on Naruto's characterization in a long time. ^_^

And yeah. I can't read NaruSasu anymore. There isn't really anything decent left. >_> That's why I turned to NaruSasuSaku -- those tend to be pretty well-written. ;)

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

I think it's also because, having seen others pave the way, each ensuing wave is able to take the shortcuts created by the previous wave. Sasuke glowers, Heero has a death-glare, Inuyasha's eyes turn red, Alphonse worries. Eventually people don't even bother telling us what a Gundam is or what a jounin is, or what the frickin tetsusaiga-whatever is. They just mix, match, and drop in the cliches created, and embroidered, by the waves before, until the last wave is nothing but a series of patched-together retreads of simplified characterization and old plot lines.

This is also how we get things like cutter!Naruto, or cutter!G-boy, or even (yegawdz) cutter!Inuyasha; it's a mish-mash of an earlier trope recycled for the newest fandom (and always for the most unlikely of characters in that new fandom, it seems).

And it's how we end up with -- using GW as example because it's easiest for me, and far older than Naruto, FmA, or any others I know: no setting description beyond 'safe house' (even though such never occured in the series at all); no characterization beyond 'Heero glared', 'Duo bounced', or 'Wufei nosebled'; no mechanical elements beyond the scantest mention of the six-ton megarobots so neatly parked in the frickin size-of-a-stadium garage; mannerisms are reduced to short-hand like 'Quatre made tea' or 'Trowa stared blankly' or 'Duo braided his hair'; no personal descriptions except for the most outlandish (usually involving orbs, cerulean*, obsidian, or otherwise) or the flattest, like 'banged boy', 'perfect soldier' and 'braided boy'.

* BLUE. The eye color is BLUE. Have you EVER met someone and said, "wow! your eyes are cerulean!" Do you even know how to PRONOUNCE it?

But that's part of what makes an overdone pairing, is that the storytelling skills themselves are cobbled-together shortcuts. If a writer comes along, no matter how late in the game, and refuses to use these shortcuts, the pairing can seem all-new again. And if several of these writers come along at the same time, you can end up with a reinvigorated fandom as it discovers the original canon held so much more than the shortcuts being used for so long.

And then the wheel turns and the second wave uses this new group's cross-fertilized shortcuts, and so on, and so on. The best treatment (as there's no cure) is to find, encourage, and stimulate those writers willing to refuse shortcuts and stereotypes, who try to push at the edges while not sacrificing the heart.

Err.

[/rant]

Ahem.

*squishes Asuka*

[dirtyoldlady.livejournal.com]

Naruto: woe, my life is horrible, I must now cut myself to get rid of the pain...
Kyuubi: WTF, bitch. *heals*

You so totally win. XD

Lurker

[(Anonymous)]

*Reads rant* Thank you.

[askerian]

hee.

and the third accepted naruto first, but by his position he had to keep a distance between them, and so i'm not sure naruto entirely noticed, or maybe it just felt like the old man was nice, not like he especially loved him. the third had a whole village to look out for. iruka, now, in a way it's closer to adoption.

*cuddle*

[scorpionocean.livejournal.com]

*loves on* I love Naruto ♥ lovely rant. have my babies? you'll have to keep them though cause I dont like kids.

[aconite.livejournal.com]

*applauds* That was perfect for so many reasons and I wish more people understood canon the way you do. After the millionth sad/emo/stupid/depressed/hyper/whatever!Naruto fic I passed up I started to wonder if maybe there are two Naruto mangas and I'm reading a different one.

Also Besides, when he cries, it's big, manly, snotty tears that leave him grimacing and red-faced, not pearls of crystalline liquid falling from his luminous cerulean irises made me laugh. :D

[decorchan.livejournal.com]

Wow, that right there is everything I've been thinking about various fandoms put into words. Very eloquent.