askerian: Serious Karkat in a red long-sleeved shirt (NaruSasu_switching seme omg OUTRAGE)
askerian ([personal profile] askerian) wrote2010-01-18 06:19 pm
Entry tags:

sasunaru contest thinger?

I don't know who nominated Crossed Wires, but thank you, I'm super mega flattered. ♥

With that in mind, I declined the nomination anyway.

reason one: The fic has been on hiatus for almost two years and I STILL get "wahh wahh how dare you not update that story, I want more now" emails about it. Getting a fresh wave of "this story is good! WHY ARE YOU NOT WRITING MORE" really wouldn't motivate me to do anything but drag in my heels and grit my teeth at this point.

reason two: it was nominated to a section that was not helpfully marked as "narusasu allowed".

Which prompted an immediate kneejerk reaction of AAAAAA NARUSASU/SASUNARU IS THE SAME DAMN PAIRING -- OR IT DAMN WELL SHOULD BE, due to the old bullshit I got about this very same story. (Crossed Wires is so far mostly gen, but when it stops being gen, who do you think will take the lead for the first time, the guy who's been flesh and blood and loved porn all along for the last twentysomething years, or the guy who left his production line ten years ago and doesn't even come equipped with a cock? But no, Sasuke-sama is so virile and Naru-chan is so cute and shy and of course Naru-chan is going to be "the girl of the relationship". Frrrrrgh.)

Therefore I'm oversensitive about combinations of uke/seme issues with that story in particular. I know that.

I don't have a problem with stories where the behavior out of bed is IC -- you can make a case either way for who takes it up the ass in bed, it shouldn't affect the rest of their behavior. What I think we really should separate in stories? Stories that have the sexual behavior as just that, sexual behavior, and if the lemon doesn't ping your buttons then you can just skip it, and stories that have the seme/uke bullshit tropes as one of the core building blocks of the characters themselves and every single interaction they have. so I can avoid the fuck out of them kthxbai DDDX

So... yeah.

I understand the seme/uke thing is a kink. Your Kink Is Not My Kink and that's *okay*. I'm not judging. Dude, I'm into genderbending and polyamory and violent!bloody!sex and I don't mind a side of furries. It's cool to me. I just personally don't want to read it. And I don't like it when sasunaru isn't assumed to mean "naruto and sasuke in a pairing" because sasunarusasu is just too long to type, but to mean sasu-seme/naru-uke = natural order of things and when they reverse it, it's so out of place that it deserves its own warning tag. If the seme/uke order is important to the story and the fans (and yes, I know it is) then it should be in the story summary. It shouldn't be just assumed like this.

Anyway, it's my own problem, not the archive's problem. I don't get why some sections allow narusasu and some don't, but I'm not the one calling the shots and I'm sure they have their reasons. I'm not complaining that they should do things my way either. Obviously I'm in a minority in the fandom, and since I'm way too lazy to organize something time-consuming like a contest, I have no grounds to complain. But it clashes with my own biases and this specific fic's history pretty harshly. I don't think I would have reacted like that for Locker Room Therapy.

Actually the second reason was mostly me going TWITCH TWITCH but in the end when I paused to consider things rationally, it wasn't what prompted me to decline. The first one was more than enough on its own. I'm so tired of *gentle nudges* and "aw, I'm disappointed" about that fic. I know you guys like it. I like it too! Sort of. But I wrote myself into a corner, and the only way out I can find makes me queasy. I'm not even sure it'll work, I might have to delete all the new stuff because turns out it doesn't, but I can force myself to write it anyway! The thing is, writing is a *hobby* that I do for *fun*, and unless I'm in a very specific state of mind when I write the next several chapters, I'm not going to have much of that. So yeah, you can bet I'm dragging my heels about it.
ext_328365: (Default)

[identity profile] belledragon.livejournal.com 2010-01-18 05:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Haven't read 'Crossed Wires' but am definitely going to check it out now. It amazes me when I see people leave reviews that complain about seme/uke issues and maybe that is because I *twitch twitch* at those stereotypes as well >.>. Still 'complaining' about it to me means they have a completely different understanding of who Naruto and Sasuke are to each other than I do.

LOL typing SasuNaruSasu is too much trouble for me too, so I always refer to it as SNS [I'm the current owner of the SasukexNaruto FC on NF, just called that - fc reflects all facets of their bond and has nothing to do with specific seme/uke] as I'm frequently discussing it and am too lazy to keep typing it all out XD.

I very much enjoy your writing and just read your 'prompt 15 response originally for the AU meme' [for lack of a better title LOL] and loved it, though I need to go back and leave a comment :).

Have a feeling I'm going to love 'Crossed Wires' and hope you won't be offended if I add another 'would LOVE to see this updated' at the end of my 'review' :). Can understand you are frustrated though :/ and hope you continue to be inspired to write for the fandom, despite others' inability to be tactful sometimes when leaving comments.
ext_328365: (Default)

[identity profile] belledragon.livejournal.com 2010-01-18 11:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Don't think I've ever read a cyberpunk AU fic, but I'm familiar with what the genre is about and think I'll find it interesting/intriguing.

Ah ok lol and it's called SN fc [for short] instead of NS to differentiate from NaruSaku FC XD. Would love to have you stop by the SN fc some time, it's extremely active with fairly regular interesting on-topic discussions going on.

[identity profile] questofdreams.livejournal.com 2010-01-18 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL when I was perusing the sight and saw that narusasu wasn't allowed, I also had the kneejerk reaction of 'WAIT, WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE?' >_>;; Just one of many reason why I don't like these sorts of popularity contests lol.

[identity profile] ex-drakyn.livejournal.com 2010-01-18 07:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I loathe uke/seme shit soooo much. >.< Stupid fannits, us queer men are not like that!

And yeah, as much as I like Crossed Wires, you don't owe me or any other fan anything. I don't understand how folks can think you do. O_o

[identity profile] superlemur.livejournal.com 2010-01-20 05:23 am (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah, us lezzies might have it a million times worse in the porn industry, but MAN does fanfic fuck with the queer guys.
ext_407641: (wtf)

[identity profile] shewhoflies.livejournal.com 2010-01-18 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't really think you need another Hell Yeah. Here it is anyway.

But! Genderbending and polyamory and violent!bloody!sex = some of my kinks too. Clearly it's fate! ♥ ♥ ♥
phantomshade: (Default)

[personal profile] phantomshade 2010-01-18 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Gwah, I hate seme/uke stereotypes soooo much. I'm personally into riba. I like knowing that a switch can occur at any given moment. Most riba fics tend to explore both characters a lot better than fixed-position fics in my opinion.

I love Crossed Wires. I can't wait to find out what happens next. But I want you to update with a chapter that you're happy with, not because you want to appease the fans. I've seen several great fics get ruined because the author caved to the fans demands to either write faster or change the pairing/plot/whatever and I do not want to see that happen to anything you write.

And I have Teamwork to keep me happy while I wait. I'm cool with that. ^_^
phantomshade: (Default)

[personal profile] phantomshade 2010-01-18 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Hehe, I actually own a "How to Draw Yaoi" book that has a list of terms including riba. That's also where I learned that "801" is code for yaoi. ^_^ I use it all the time when my parents are nearby.

*purrs happily...and not in a sexy*
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[identity profile] na-no-nai.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 02:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah! I have learned something today. Thank you! *files info away*
ext_415568: (NaruSasu)

[identity profile] prue84.livejournal.com 2010-01-18 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I still have way to go to catch up all your Naruto production (Teamwork already took lot of time and I won't read more for some time), so I can't comment on the fic specifically. Buuut, being myself a strictly NaruSasu slasher(yaoier?), I can fully understand what you're talking about. I really prefer when Naruto is top, and Sasu plays the part of the unwild/untameable bottom (because, really, Sasu uke can't exist, stop!), but it doesn't really matter if the characters are kept IC - I love to death Uzu Uzu Company djs, and this circle draws only SasuNaru. Believe me, half of the italian fandom is for Naruto-uke and that drives me nuts! >< Naruto uke is just soooo wrong that I can't stand it even if the story itself has an interesting plot. They're rivals out and in bed, one of them can't play the part of the ukeish-virgin boy scared of sex, actually... simply can't -.-" Especially NOT Naruto "I lived with ero-Sennin Jiraiya for three years". -.-

For the writer part... unfortunately the readers (included myself sometimes) can't understand that authors (including myself here too) write for "hobby" and, if you start writing because "you have to not disappoint your fans" that will become a work and... not only you won't get fun but the writing style will decrease. :( I know a writer who decided to make a oneshot a series because of the comments or extended a series because of the fans asking so, and that's soooo wrong. :(

Big hugh!

[identity profile] rosalui.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 04:31 am (UTC)(link)
THIS. *hugs you*

[identity profile] lilai.livejournal.com 2010-01-18 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
You know, actually reading you ranting for Crossed Wires may finally prompt me into reading it.
Exactly because it won't be so time consuming since I already know that I can take my time to read it and enjoy it and not be worried about the "oh-my-god-I-should-be-working-but-there-are-this-shinny-new-chaters" syndrom ^^

I totally agree about the seme/uke thing being a kink, and actually that pov may interest people over there if you want to have a look : http://community.livejournal.com/amours_de_fans/3238.html#cutid1
(Makes me remember all the bitching about 1x2 isn't the same as 2x1 in GW fandom)
killua: <user name="killua"> (hxh // kiru // WTF U DOIN)

[personal profile] killua 2010-01-19 02:53 am (UTC)(link)
Ohmygod I just read that link (THANK YOU FOR LINKING IT THAT WAS AMAZING) and AHAHA I feel so enlightened. I'd always read Yaoi manga thinking that most of it read like dickgirl porn which really isn't my thing and this kind of makes things a little more understandable.

AND more to the point of your original post - I definitely have my own kinks when it comes to seme and uke positions but it really bothers me when the story becomes all about who is seme and uke and yeah, anyway, basically just what you said in your post. I always do love reading your posts. <3

[identity profile] lilai.livejournal.com 2010-01-21 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
OO effectivement, on apprend plein de choses !

Il m'arrive une chose étrange, après tant de temps à lurker, j'ai toujours un petit élan de fierté genre "elle a fait attention à moi" lorsque tu réponds à mes commentaires... ^^;; Don't be scared, I'm no stalker xD

[identity profile] rosalui.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 03:32 am (UTC)(link)
I should point out that I'm a judge on that site, and nearl everyone hates me already.

This is because a) I got pissy at them when they started calling Sakura a "whore who needed to die" and I refused to meekly back the fuck down when they all turned on me, and b) I tried to explain that having read a few traumatizing fics that "made Sasuke way too uke" doesn't mean that NARUTO should be WRITTEN AS NOTHING BUT THE UKE.

The seme/uke thing is a kink, sure, but no one seemed to be getting the fact that neither Sasuke nor Naruto ever have or ever WILL be "submissive" to each other. I tried to get them to change that "no NaruSasu allowed" thing that exists in a few sections, but... no. >.>

I also had to argue them out of adding a "Best Rape category." THE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A BEST AU CATEGORY AND THE WANTED A BEST RAPE CATEGORY AHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

So yes, I've gone Rantyranty in my head at them quite a few times, but I hold myself back because if they kick me out as a judge, I fear for the fics that will end up winning. ;_;

[identity profile] skellywag.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 01:56 pm (UTC)(link)
You know. I don't think I've ever seen an archive where a pairing had to be a certain way. But maybe that's because I've never felt a particular pairing had to have a particular seme or uke, because I've always been of the belief that situations you put the characters in shape their behaviour. Like your own example.
ext_77486: (Kakashi approved!)

[identity profile] na-no-nai.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
When I first got into fandom it took me a long time to realize that most people considered the first name as seme. I probably upset quite a few people because I always thought it just indicated the pairing. XD Then I started using name order just to indicate who was pursuing the relationship. That's pretty much how I still do it. I'm probably still confusing the hell out of people, but oh well. I like my method. :P And really, unless I'm writing straight up porn, it tends to be vague as to whose doing who anyway. The only real interest I see in who goes where is simply the process in which they work it out because with those two, it tends to end in lulz. XD

lol tl;dr In conclusion, I totally agree with you. ♥

[identity profile] cerberusia.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 05:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, seme-uke roles. Personally, I like to switch them around: I'll prefer a certain person being penetrated (i.e. the 'bottom'), but they then proceed to top from the bottom LIEK WHOA. Pushy!aggressive!initiating!bottoms is my kink (and then they can have bloody!violent!sex, which is always good).

For me, I think that the worst bit of the seme/uke conceit is the sentimentalism and inevitable OOC. I don't mind submissiveness (hell, I'm planning a proper D/s fic and am doing the research), but none of the guys I write are going to break down in their lover's manly arms in floods of pearly tears and generally act like a wet dishcloth and - okay, breathe.

...Sorry, I think what I meant to say is basically: I AGREE.

Also, all these links are really fascinating. Especially the ones in French, which are good for my language skills.

(Anonymous) 2010-01-19 05:41 pm (UTC)(link)
*delurk*\
This may make me unpopular, but I agree with having separate warnings. Not because I agree with the whole 'sasuke should always be on top' thing - because trying to do that send both character's straight into OOC land - but because I'm lazy.
In the same way that some days I want to read Gundam Wing, and some days I want to read Naruto, somedays I want to read narusasu, and I don't want to have to go searching through a billion and a half sasunaru to find one.
It's also kind of the same way as I want to have a rec archive strictly for IC fics of the fandoms I like - with only fics I haven't read yet (Unfortunately, I doubt it'll ever happen). I don't want to search through another billion and a half OOC fics, and IC fics that I have read trying to find one IC fic I haven't yet.
Sue me. I'm lazy, and therefore support separate warnings.

[identity profile] kiyakotari.livejournal.com 2010-01-21 01:38 am (UTC)(link)
Seme/uke distinctions in general just piss me off. Hell, I'm female, and yet I'm perfectly capable of "topping" my (male or female) partners when the mood strikes me (I just need extra equipment). Why the hell wouldn't guys switch off when they want to? I've only once read a story where the fact that the pairing was exclusively one guy pitching, the other one catching made sense, and that was because it was Mal's Freeport and goddamn if Wufei's "I like it, you got a problem with that?" attitude wasn't totally in-character despite my usual disgust over the whole idea. (Also, anyone who thinks he wasn't "on top" in some of those sex scenes in anything but the most technical sense is smoking something good, and I want some.)

Erm. Sorry. OT soapbox ranting, I have it.

[identity profile] mackenziex.livejournal.com 2010-01-21 08:40 am (UTC)(link)
Read Crossed Wires, like Crossed Wires, can understand where you are with having written yourself into a corner .... But I got to agree with you.

No way with how the story has gone so far would Sasuke be running the show once you get to the sex parts ... and it is your story last time I checked so you can have it anyway you like. People who don't understand those simple points should run away from the logic before it gets them!

Not to say that I couldn't see the Crossed Wires' Naruto shoving Sasuke-bot down on the bed yanking his pants off and riding him like a pony, but that's just me.

Sasuke: What are you doing?
Naruto: Teaching you how to have sex, now do that again! HARDER!

[identity profile] armina-skitty.livejournal.com 2010-01-29 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry, can't help myself.

Sasuke: (Holding thumbnail drive like its virus ridden--which it could very well be) What... is this?
Naruto: (evil grin is evil) How-to sex manual, with a good section on how to do it by yourself. There's the bathroom. Have fun now, I need to go make out the quiz.
Sasuke: Quiz?

[identity profile] daemoninwhite.livejournal.com 2011-02-16 01:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I must admit, I'm kind weird about the whole Order Of The Names thing. Sometimes, it's useful. There are some characters that I like to read taking it from certain characters and I don't like it the other way around. But that's only for flat out porn. If there's any plot or if it's long enough porn, I like switchers. Being bi myself (but a woman, so I can't really comment on this sort of thing, BUT I'M A PERFECTIONIST so I do a lot of ... research), I can only say one thing.

Depending on the person you’re with, the mood you’re in, the time you need to get up the next day, and a billion and one other factors including whether or not there's a butterfly in China flapping its wings, you decide on if you want to take a giving or receiving role on an occasion by occasion type of thing. Of course, there are some people who go, I like giving, or, I like receiving. It depends on what you personally get out of an encounter.

But this is for girls. Guys have it way, way worse, mainly because there's so much baggage that our society attaches to them about being perceived as 'the woman'. You have no idea how long I agonised over the word choice for 'giving or receiving'. Reflex was to type active and passive, but that's incorrect and offensive for some and just the entire issue of what goes where for anal sex is just mind blowing.

Not for everyone, of course. Some people just go, 'I don't care what people think about me', or 'pfft, fuck no, it isn’t womanly', or, even, dare I say it, people that have come to terms with themselves and their homosexuality/bisexuality/etc. For example, Zack and Cloud. Zack is confident, flirty, and doesn't seem to mind what people think. However, he does come from a small, jungle community. Cloud likely grew up bullied, joined the army to be like his hero and is rather insure as a result of several things. However, fanon seems to say that he holds onto his 'precious people' with terrific strength, and that he's a stubborn son of a bitch.

Isolated communities are likely to have a massive stigma attached to homosexuality, because being gay, generally speaking, = no babies. No babies = everyone dies out/Not Good.

As for personality traits well ... for me, for basic!model!Zack and Cloud, Zack is far more likely to be at ease in the 'woman's position' than Cloud.

(As for Naruto ... pfft. Logic insists that homosexuality in the Naruto world is very, very frowned upon, if in the case of only gay monogamous relationships. There is a very, very high mortality rate coupled with isolated communities. They need babies and fast. For me, logic insists that Hinata is going to be recalled soon. The Hyuuga clan need her undamaged, and if there's a war on, they need babies to replace the people that are dying. As for flings, etc, I don't really think that anyone cares. Stress of the battlefield and all that. But serious relationships are highly likely to be hetro.)

And now I will go over here to me little corner and stop rambling.

...

Now.