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sasunaru contest thinger?
I don't know who nominated Crossed Wires, but thank you, I'm super mega flattered. ♥
With that in mind, I declined the nomination anyway.
reason one: The fic has been on hiatus for almost two years and I STILL get "wahh wahh how dare you not update that story, I want more now" emails about it. Getting a fresh wave of "this story is good! WHY ARE YOU NOT WRITING MORE" really wouldn't motivate me to do anything but drag in my heels and grit my teeth at this point.
reason two: it was nominated to a section that was not helpfully marked as "narusasu allowed".
Which prompted an immediate kneejerk reaction of AAAAAA NARUSASU/SASUNARU IS THE SAME DAMN PAIRING -- OR IT DAMN WELL SHOULD BE, due to the old bullshit I got about this very same story. (Crossed Wires is so far mostly gen, but when it stops being gen, who do you think will take the lead for the first time, the guy who's been flesh and blood and loved porn all along for the last twentysomething years, or the guy who left his production line ten years ago and doesn't even come equipped with a cock? But no, Sasuke-sama is so virile and Naru-chan is so cute and shy and of course Naru-chan is going to be "the girl of the relationship". Frrrrrgh.)
Therefore I'm oversensitive about combinations of uke/seme issues with that story in particular. I know that.
I don't have a problem with stories where the behavior out of bed is IC -- you can make a case either way for who takes it up the ass in bed, it shouldn't affect the rest of their behavior. What I think we really should separate in stories? Stories that have the sexual behavior as just that, sexual behavior, and if the lemon doesn't ping your buttons then you can just skip it, and stories that have the seme/ukebullshit tropes as one of the core building blocks of the characters themselves and every single interaction they have. so I can avoid the fuck out of them kthxbai DDDX
So... yeah.
I understand the seme/uke thing is a kink. Your Kink Is Not My Kink and that's *okay*. I'm not judging. Dude, I'm into genderbending and polyamory and violent!bloody!sex and I don't mind a side of furries. It's cool to me. I just personally don't want to read it. And I don't like it when sasunaru isn't assumed to mean "naruto and sasuke in a pairing" because sasunarusasu is just too long to type, but to mean sasu-seme/naru-uke = natural order of things and when they reverse it, it's so out of place that it deserves its own warning tag. If the seme/uke order is important to the story and the fans (and yes, I know it is) then it should be in the story summary. It shouldn't be just assumed like this.
Anyway, it's my own problem, not the archive's problem. I don't get why some sections allow narusasu and some don't, but I'm not the one calling the shots and I'm sure they have their reasons. I'm not complaining that they should do things my way either. Obviously I'm in a minority in the fandom, and since I'm way too lazy to organize something time-consuming like a contest, I have no grounds to complain. But it clashes with my own biases and this specific fic's history pretty harshly. I don't think I would have reacted like that for Locker Room Therapy.
Actually the second reason was mostly me going TWITCH TWITCH but in the end when I paused to consider things rationally, it wasn't what prompted me to decline. The first one was more than enough on its own. I'm so tired of *gentle nudges* and "aw, I'm disappointed" about that fic. I know you guys like it. I like it too! Sort of. But I wrote myself into a corner, and the only way out I can find makes me queasy. I'm not even sure it'll work, I might have to delete all the new stuff because turns out it doesn't, but I can force myself to write it anyway! The thing is, writing is a *hobby* that I do for *fun*, and unless I'm in a very specific state of mind when I write the next several chapters, I'm not going to have much of that. So yeah, you can bet I'm dragging my heels about it.
With that in mind, I declined the nomination anyway.
reason one: The fic has been on hiatus for almost two years and I STILL get "wahh wahh how dare you not update that story, I want more now" emails about it. Getting a fresh wave of "this story is good! WHY ARE YOU NOT WRITING MORE" really wouldn't motivate me to do anything but drag in my heels and grit my teeth at this point.
reason two: it was nominated to a section that was not helpfully marked as "narusasu allowed".
Which prompted an immediate kneejerk reaction of AAAAAA NARUSASU/SASUNARU IS THE SAME DAMN PAIRING -- OR IT DAMN WELL SHOULD BE, due to the old bullshit I got about this very same story. (Crossed Wires is so far mostly gen, but when it stops being gen, who do you think will take the lead for the first time, the guy who's been flesh and blood and loved porn all along for the last twentysomething years, or the guy who left his production line ten years ago and doesn't even come equipped with a cock? But no, Sasuke-sama is so virile and Naru-chan is so cute and shy and of course Naru-chan is going to be "the girl of the relationship". Frrrrrgh.)
Therefore I'm oversensitive about combinations of uke/seme issues with that story in particular. I know that.
I don't have a problem with stories where the behavior out of bed is IC -- you can make a case either way for who takes it up the ass in bed, it shouldn't affect the rest of their behavior. What I think we really should separate in stories? Stories that have the sexual behavior as just that, sexual behavior, and if the lemon doesn't ping your buttons then you can just skip it, and stories that have the seme/uke
So... yeah.
I understand the seme/uke thing is a kink. Your Kink Is Not My Kink and that's *okay*. I'm not judging. Dude, I'm into genderbending and polyamory and violent!bloody!sex and I don't mind a side of furries. It's cool to me. I just personally don't want to read it. And I don't like it when sasunaru isn't assumed to mean "naruto and sasuke in a pairing" because sasunarusasu is just too long to type, but to mean sasu-seme/naru-uke = natural order of things and when they reverse it, it's so out of place that it deserves its own warning tag. If the seme/uke order is important to the story and the fans (and yes, I know it is) then it should be in the story summary. It shouldn't be just assumed like this.
Anyway, it's my own problem, not the archive's problem. I don't get why some sections allow narusasu and some don't, but I'm not the one calling the shots and I'm sure they have their reasons. I'm not complaining that they should do things my way either. Obviously I'm in a minority in the fandom, and since I'm way too lazy to organize something time-consuming like a contest, I have no grounds to complain. But it clashes with my own biases and this specific fic's history pretty harshly. I don't think I would have reacted like that for Locker Room Therapy.
Actually the second reason was mostly me going TWITCH TWITCH but in the end when I paused to consider things rationally, it wasn't what prompted me to decline. The first one was more than enough on its own. I'm so tired of *gentle nudges* and "aw, I'm disappointed" about that fic. I know you guys like it. I like it too! Sort of. But I wrote myself into a corner, and the only way out I can find makes me queasy. I'm not even sure it'll work, I might have to delete all the new stuff because turns out it doesn't, but I can force myself to write it anyway! The thing is, writing is a *hobby* that I do for *fun*, and unless I'm in a very specific state of mind when I write the next several chapters, I'm not going to have much of that. So yeah, you can bet I'm dragging my heels about it.
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LOL typing SasuNaruSasu is too much trouble for me too, so I always refer to it as SNS [I'm the current owner of the SasukexNaruto FC on NF, just called that - fc reflects all facets of their bond and has nothing to do with specific seme/uke] as I'm frequently discussing it and am too lazy to keep typing it all out XD.
I very much enjoy your writing and just read your 'prompt 15 response originally for the AU meme' [for lack of a better title LOL] and loved it, though I need to go back and leave a comment :).
Have a feeling I'm going to love 'Crossed Wires' and hope you won't be offended if I add another 'would LOVE to see this updated' at the end of my 'review' :). Can understand you are frustrated though :/ and hope you continue to be inspired to write for the fandom, despite others' inability to be tactful sometimes when leaving comments.
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When I see sasunarusasu I always have a second where I misread it as sasunarusaku and then I go GLEE -- oh wait nevermind. *sadface* SNS sounds like a game console name to me for some reason XD When i'm with narutofan people I use NS and NH and SS for the het pairings, but I admit I don't discuss narusasu much over there so I haven't gotten into the habit of using the initials only. Maybe I should visit the SNS FC one of these days, if there's interesting discussion. *ponders*
♥
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Ah ok lol and it's called SN fc [for short] instead of NS to differentiate from NaruSaku FC XD. Would love to have you stop by the SN fc some time, it's extremely active with fairly regular interesting on-topic discussions going on.
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And yeah, as much as I like Crossed Wires, you don't owe me or any other fan anything. I don't understand how folks can think you do. O_o
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But! Genderbending and polyamory and violent!bloody!sex = some of my kinks too. Clearly it's fate! ♥ ♥ ♥
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I love Crossed Wires. I can't wait to find out what happens next. But I want you to update with a chapter that you're happy with, not because you want to appease the fans. I've seen several great fics get ruined because the author caved to the fans demands to either write faster or change the pairing/plot/whatever and I do not want to see that happen to anything you write.
And I have Teamwork to keep me happy while I wait. I'm cool with that. ^_^
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*lovesquishpets*
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*purrs happily...and not in a sexy*
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For the writer part... unfortunately the readers (included myself sometimes) can't understand that authors (including myself here too) write for "hobby" and, if you start writing because "you have to not disappoint your fans" that will become a work and... not only you won't get fun but the writing style will decrease. :( I know a writer who decided to make a oneshot a series because of the comments or extended a series because of the fans asking so, and that's soooo wrong. :(
Big hugh!
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Exactly because it won't be so time consuming since I already know that I can take my time to read it and enjoy it and not be worried about the "oh-my-god-I-should-be-working-but-there-are-this-shinny-new-chaters" syndrom ^^
I totally agree about the seme/uke thing being a kink, and actually that pov may interest people over there if you want to have a look : http://community.livejournal.com/amours_de_fans/3238.html#cutid1
(Makes me remember all the bitching about 1x2 isn't the same as 2x1 in GW fandom)
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Heh, interesting discussion! ^__^
I think you'd be interested in this link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/77uoy/sex_and_flirting_in_japan/
which shows that the seme/uke thing is kind of anchored in japanese mentalities, male/male or male/female alike they have this idea that SOMEONE must be passive. The difference with the slash is that slash tends to be more often about two he-men (at least in theory) whereas in yaoi they have this assumption that one of the two has to fit in the pre-designated social role. ... je sais pas pourquoi je te parle en anglais mais bon. XD
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AND more to the point of your original post - I definitely have my own kinks when it comes to seme and uke positions but it really bothers me when the story becomes all about who is seme and uke and yeah, anyway, basically just what you said in your post. I always do love reading your posts. <3
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Il m'arrive une chose étrange, après tant de temps à lurker, j'ai toujours un petit élan de fierté genre "elle a fait attention à moi" lorsque tu réponds à mes commentaires... ^^;; Don't be scared, I'm no stalker xD
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*tapote la tête*
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It's really fascinating. X3 (also really weird. XDD)
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This is because a) I got pissy at them when they started calling Sakura a "whore who needed to die" and I refused to meekly back the fuck down when they all turned on me, and b) I tried to explain that having read a few traumatizing fics that "made Sasuke way too uke" doesn't mean that NARUTO should be WRITTEN AS NOTHING BUT THE UKE.
The seme/uke thing is a kink, sure, but no one seemed to be getting the fact that neither Sasuke nor Naruto ever have or ever WILL be "submissive" to each other. I tried to get them to change that "no NaruSasu allowed" thing that exists in a few sections, but... no. >.>
I also had to argue them out of adding a "Best Rape category." THE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A BEST AU CATEGORY AND THE WANTED A BEST RAPE CATEGORY AHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
So yes, I've gone Rantyranty in my head at them quite a few times, but I hold myself back because if they kick me out as a judge, I fear for the fics that will end up winning. ;_;
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because with those two, it tends to end in lulz.XDlol tl;dr In conclusion, I totally agree with you. ♥
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For me, I think that the worst bit of the seme/uke conceit is the sentimentalism and inevitable OOC. I don't mind submissiveness (hell, I'm planning a proper D/s fic and am doing the research), but none of the guys I write are going to break down in their lover's manly arms in floods of pearly tears and generally act like a wet dishcloth and - okay, breathe.
...Sorry, I think what I meant to say is basically: I AGREE.
Also, all these links are really fascinating. Especially the ones in French, which are good for my language skills.
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(Anonymous) 2010-01-19 05:41 pm (UTC)(link)This may make me unpopular, but I agree with having separate warnings. Not because I agree with the whole 'sasuke should always be on top' thing - because trying to do that send both character's straight into OOC land - but because I'm lazy.
In the same way that some days I want to read Gundam Wing, and some days I want to read Naruto, somedays I want to read narusasu, and I don't want to have to go searching through a billion and a half sasunaru to find one.
It's also kind of the same way as I want to have a rec archive strictly for IC fics of the fandoms I like - with only fics I haven't read yet (Unfortunately, I doubt it'll ever happen). I don't want to search through another billion and a half OOC fics, and IC fics that I have read trying to find one IC fic I haven't yet.
Sue me. I'm lazy, and therefore support separate warnings.
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Erm. Sorry. OT soapbox ranting, I have it.
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No way with how the story has gone so far would Sasuke be running the show once you get to the sex parts ... and it is your story last time I checked so you can have it anyway you like. People who don't understand those simple points should run away from the logic before it gets them!
Not to say that I couldn't see the Crossed Wires' Naruto shoving Sasuke-bot down on the bed yanking his pants off and riding him like a pony, but that's just me.
Sasuke: What are you doing?
Naruto: Teaching you how to have sex, now do that again! HARDER!
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Anyway, thank you for the comment. And yes, I could easily see Crossed Wires Naruto riding Sasuke like a pony, (bwahaha, nice script XD) but the way I'm thinking, first Sasuke needs to learn to curb the automatic "thrusting" response because as an android who is much stronger than a normal person it's guaranteed he'd do a lot of damage to Naruto's flesh and blood parts. XD;
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Sasuke: (Holding thumbnail drive like its virus ridden--which it could very well be) What... is this?
Naruto: (evil grin is evil) How-to sex manual, with a good section on how to do it by yourself. There's the bathroom. Have fun now, I need to go make out the quiz.
Sasuke: Quiz?
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♥♥♥
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Depending on the person you’re with, the mood you’re in, the time you need to get up the next day, and a billion and one other factors including whether or not there's a butterfly in China flapping its wings, you decide on if you want to take a giving or receiving role on an occasion by occasion type of thing. Of course, there are some people who go, I like giving, or, I like receiving. It depends on what you personally get out of an encounter.
But this is for girls. Guys have it way, way worse, mainly because there's so much baggage that our society attaches to them about being perceived as 'the woman'. You have no idea how long I agonised over the word choice for 'giving or receiving'. Reflex was to type active and passive, but that's incorrect and offensive for some and just the entire issue of what goes where for anal sex is just mind blowing.
Not for everyone, of course. Some people just go, 'I don't care what people think about me', or 'pfft, fuck no, it isn’t womanly', or, even, dare I say it, people that have come to terms with themselves and their homosexuality/bisexuality/etc. For example, Zack and Cloud. Zack is confident, flirty, and doesn't seem to mind what people think. However, he does come from a small, jungle community. Cloud likely grew up bullied, joined the army to be like his hero and is rather insure as a result of several things. However, fanon seems to say that he holds onto his 'precious people' with terrific strength, and that he's a stubborn son of a bitch.
Isolated communities are likely to have a massive stigma attached to homosexuality, because being gay, generally speaking, = no babies. No babies = everyone dies out/Not Good.
As for personality traits well ... for me, for basic!model!Zack and Cloud, Zack is far more likely to be at ease in the 'woman's position' than Cloud.
(As for Naruto ... pfft. Logic insists that homosexuality in the Naruto world is very, very frowned upon, if in the case of only gay monogamous relationships. There is a very, very high mortality rate coupled with isolated communities. They need babies and fast. For me, logic insists that Hinata is going to be recalled soon. The Hyuuga clan need her undamaged, and if there's a war on, they need babies to replace the people that are dying. As for flings, etc, I don't really think that anyone cares. Stress of the battlefield and all that. But serious relationships are highly likely to be hetro.)
And now I will go over here to me little corner and stop rambling.
...
Now.