askerian | oh my god it's been so long since something had pissed me off THAT much

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rant

oh my god it's been so long since something had pissed me off THAT much

I thought I was getting calmer! Or more desensitized to stupid! Soon enough I wouldn't need to rant my head off anymore!

Apparently I wasn't looking in the right place. Oh, how silly was I, thinking that people might like Sakura in the Naruto/Sakura fanclub. :O

Apparently not only some of them now *hate* her (reasons expanded on underneath), but they love a Naruto that has less resemblance to canon!Naruto and more resemblance to what they see in the mirror every morning.

I am so fucking glad that Naruto is the farthest thing from a motherfucking Nice Guy and didn't ever ask for anything in return for his friendship and support but HER friendship and support.

I am so fucking glad that *he's* not going to flip his lid when she doesn't suddenly realize that her friendship means nothing and that Naruto wanted nothing but her riding his cock in return, because it's the only way to repay his several years of unasked-for ~martyrdom~ in her name.

Doesn't she know that women can bring nothing else of value in a bond between two people? Doesn't she feel horrible for being a cocktease and using Naruto's feelings for her own ends? Did she seriously assume Naruto's friendship came free of strings? Pff, silly cunt. :D

My god, I fucking hate Naruto-stu Nice Guys dickwads. Kishimoto isn't the one who writes Sakura as the girl who jilted him for the hot jerk in high school, YOU are.

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Oooh, remember back on the GWAddiction forum, when what was her name analyzed herself/compared how much she was like the pilots - but not the pilots from the series, but the pilots from the fanfics? XD
Oh, good memories.

Also: *big hugs*

Uh, not at all? o_o *headscratch* What was in those posts?

ngh. ~__~

I don't remember any details, unfortunately. I think it was just that one post. She wrote some sort of essay about which pilot she resembles the most, but it was all of them a little bit. XD Hilarious. (And more than a bit sad.)

Oh my god, what is it about characterization that people don't understand??

Naruto's a scamp but he's also a genuinely nice guy! Not a Nice Guy! He does things for people and kinda doesn't expect much in return, especially the Naruto we know now. Since kid!Naruto was kinda I WANT RESPECT AND ATTENTION-TTEBAYO, but he's grown out of it and such.

This seems so typical of fangirls, though, projecting their own relationship troubles onto the pairings they write. :<

The person who sparked this rant and most of the people WORD!ing him were fanboys, not fangirls.

There was tons of bullshit about how she would have to crawl for Naruto's forgiveness and even then if he took her back she would have to be made aware of how much she had fucked up and how pathetically grateful she would have to be toward Naruto and even then it still wouldn't redeem her. For not falling in love with him yet. Because "after all he's done for her" he was owed this.

They don't give a shit about Sakura, she's just a hot prize to represent the bitchy/sexy/popular girl who wouldn't give them the time of the day or prefered to date someone who made his interest clear rather than a coward who did things for her with the expectation that they'd get a pity fuck in return. It's so crazily clear when reading their posts, it's disgusting.

DDD: Oh, that's even WORSE. FANBOYS, WHY. The hell did Sakura do WRONG?! Ugh, no no no.

Dude, Sakura's her own person. She's a smart, strong young woman and she's gonna be a better doctor than Tsunade someday. If she didn't end up with anyone I'd still be happy... so long as Kishimoto doesn't keep devaluing her achievements and undoing her character development. >_<

This is just inexcusable, though. And far more harmful than fangirls going OH I WISH IT WERE ME........

so long as Kishimoto doesn't keep devaluing her achievements and undoing her character development.
Like what? I mean, the failfession for example was bad because she was lying to Naruto, but it also demonstrated that she was tired of leaning on Naruto to achieve things she wanted, and she wasn't going to side with Sasuke even if she loved him. ... and then afterwards she apparently got the "go back to the kitchen" no jutsu of "I'll just trust in them", okay, that was pretty bad. But it didn't take her all the way back to the start of part 1 either, she's being pretty competent and professional at the moment. She's always had self-confidence issues, though. Thematically I don't think they'll be fully solved until the last, successful attempt to get Sasuke back. ;_;

Well mostly it's because Sakura's had about two or three "IT'S MY TURN TO PROTECT YOU" moments that were totally awesome, but Kishimoto then renders them totally useless. Her protection of Sasuke and Naruto in the Forest of Death was basically negated by Sasuke's curse seal activating and Sasuke thrashing the Sound 3, and Sakura's only Action Moment after that being her duel with Ino, which was also great. But that was it. She's relegated to emotional support from there on out until her training with Tsunade, with all the boys getting the fun backstory and such.

And then there was the whole "I CAN'T DO ANYTHING, SO I'LL JUST SUPPORT YOU FROM THE SIDES...." thing that you just referenced. The Forest of Death instance is maybe excusable because Sakura spent hours fighting people off so that Naruto and Sasuke wouldn't die, but the latter seems... kinda cheap, especially because of Sakura's previous actions.

I mean, the whole fake-confession I totally understood because Sakura doesn't want Naruto to get himself killed for Sasuke's sake, and her seeking Sasuke out herself was just an extension of that: if she got Sasuke home, Naruto doesn't have to risk his neck any more. But that went all sorts of horribly. And while it doesn't revert her to her pre-timeskip levels of weakness, it's still a step backwards and it made me very sad to see.

Basically, I just want her to get more credit in the effort, because it feels like it's all about Naruto, when it really feels more like a joint effort between her and Naruto. She's done a LOT of stuff, but nobody gives her credit.

I love Sakura and her character way too much to see her tossed around so carelessly. Kishimoto's already way too wishy-washy with his female characters.

Urgh that was a pretty long rant. Clearly I have a lot of opinions about this. :D;; Of course, my interpretations might be wrong--I mean, until the scene where she got stabbed in the chest and had her flashback, I thought that Karin wanted to get Sasuke alone so she could murder him in his sleep--he killed her beloved sensei, after all. But it's still pretty fun, I guess.

Oh goodness. People are idiots sometimes. Shoot me now.

Noo no shooting. ;__; *shields!*

How dare she not fall in love with Naruto! How dare she! Doesn't she know that if a main character loves a girl the girl has to roll over, sacrifice her own life, preferences and everything for him?

[/sarcasm]

Especially a guy who knows that she loves someone else and is 100% supportive about it and even encourages her to keep believing when she falters! Especially a guy who seems to think way more often about how to rescue his friendships (with that same guy gasp) and the state of the world than the sad lack of romance in his life! nggggggh.

she's doing it deliberately, we can tell. >__>

As payment for his promise of a lifetime, Naruto has unrestricted access to her vag. Didn't you know?

I mean, it's not like Sakura can have sex with Naruto because she, y'know, loves>/i> him or anything. Nope, she has to earn the right for him to even think about ramming it up there. Because sex is never a mutual thing and obviously the only reason anyone ever has sex is because they feel like they owe someone.

(These are most likely the same people who would use the 'she was dressed like a whore/she was drunk/she wasn't a virgin, so she was asking to be raped' defence in court. Don't bother with them.)

Hey, hey, want a fic that'll piss you off even more? Chunin Exam Day, by PerfectLionheart. It's the Twilight of the Naruto fanfic community - crazy popular but anyone with a working brain can tell you a thousand reasons why it's objectively terrible.

I'm not yet to the point where I deliberately go read fics that'll make me want to gouge someone's eyes out, thankfully. XD Also what the fuck ever, it's fanfic. It just pisses me off when they're reading the manga with such assholish goggles on, that they can't even tell it's not really jivving with canon.

Do it do it do it do it do it.

You'd be amazed at the logic leaps; I ran into someone who called herself a 'canon-purist' and she constantly railed against all the terrible mischaracterisations in fanfic... yet 'Sakura's such a whore, look at chapter X -insert chapter where she's not fellating Naruto's glory-' or 'She's clearly a bitch! Look here, in chapter Y! -insert chapter where she has the gall to look like she has feelings for another guy-', but at the same time 'Naruto totally deserves her after everything he's done for her' ._.

(Yeah, like he's only bringing Sasuke back for her. He couldn't care less about that guy really; it's all about getting some of dat pink ass.)

... fhrrrghghghrrrrgh. DX

ASUKA HULK SMASH.

oh, oh, have you run into any people who call themselves sakura fans, but who think the only acceptable marker of growth for her is whether she's still in love with Sasuke? being able to go against him even when she loves him doesn't count as growth, and being a calm, competent medic, or being able to flatten that zetsu in a single punch... she could become hokage, but as long as she still gives a damn about that evil bastard it means she's a stupid blind fangirl courting an abusive relationship.

Dude, no one can have a relationship with sasuke right now, it wouldn't be abusive so much as suicidal. buuuut 1) sakura tried to kill him, i'd say she's over the "plz date me~" stage, (gasp loving someone yet knowing it's smarter not to shack up with them! unpossible.) 2) naruto won't become hokage until he can save sasuke. [/end argument]

also it makes naruto into such a fucking asshole, my god. I'm sorry for all the sane narusaku shippers, having to have those people even nominally on their side. ~__~

-
Dude, no one can have a relationship with sasuke right now, it wouldn't be abusive so much as suicidal. -

Yea, it got to a point where *Karin* got over him.

Heck, he'd need, like, girlHidan to have a relationship right now :)

Oh gods yes.

Chunin Exam Day is the fanfic that I use as an example of what not to do in fanfic. It starts out with an interesting concept but turns into such a fanboy fuck fantasy that I want to vomit.

Not to mention the "I'm the best author ever" rants that PerfectLionheart does.

... i went to look at his profile and whoa nevermind, I am not looking at that chuunin fic. It's like he's not reading the same manga we are. Also woohoo Naruto-stu. May he have fun with that. :/

(if you feel like expanding on this "an example of what not to do in fanfic" I'd be interested to hear it. Or have a link if you already posted about it somewhere.)

Yeah. I think that he's only reading fanboy wanna-be fanfic for his canon reference. Or I hope he is. It's about the only excuse I can see for the shoddy OOC-ness that he has.

I did a tongue-in-cheek post a while ago that references the fic. http://leilia.livejournal.com/320271.html A lot of the things I don't quote actually refer to this fic including the asking for who should Naruto have in his harem next and the author's notes of doom. Mostly though, I show it to people as an example of how a fic can start off fairly interestingly and then crash and burn horribly when the author lets his/her prejudices get to their head as well as their own inflated opinion of their self-worth. It's the classic example of the Goku effect mixed with the Tenchi effect - both of which are pure fanboy fantasies. I probably could expand more on this and I may later. ^_^

Naruto Stu? I only read descriptions and a commentary, but judging by that? Evil, mindraping, soulstealing, parasitic eldrich abomination Naruto is much more like it, than Naruto Stu... though I suppose you could argue that some Naruto Stu's are that already.

Also:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=5282069&postcount=35

Oh dear gods... It's very sad that I know of him from both the FFML and now the Naruto fandom. I read Mirrors Multiplied and couldn't finish it was so bad. I never made the connection because of the time difference.

Also that article/write-up is very interesting. Very interesting.

... wow. thanks for the link. just... wow.

That post made me sad. Cause Skysaber's "A Wizard of Gotham" was pretty funny/good, but then Skysaber quit writing, and to find out that Skysaber claims to be PerfectLionheart? *heartbreaks in disappointment*

You also forget how it's BAD that Sakura "abused" Naruto when she has her village/school/friends/parents saying it's okay, but it's okay when Naruto and others torture her by denying her basic human comforts like touch/approval/etc. He implies Sakura was in the loops for YEARS, growing while her parents remained static, and the first human touch she gets is from Naruto when she begs to be let go from the loop.

oh god what.

this is terrifying. DX

I did put in a review, pointing out how Sakura was tortured as much as Naruto was, if not more since Naruto had Iruka. Never did get a reply. *shrugs*

I will say this: sometimes I wish some people would go to the store and be able to buy a brain.

Seriously.

Provide me with directions if you find one.
I'll make business cards.

Uuuuugh, that is painful.

I'm kinda new to Naruto fanfiction, but I totally agree with your rant. Hell, seeing how Relena from Gundam Wing makes me fume, sometimes. I mean, what the hell is up with people claiming she's obsessed with pink!? Yeah, okay, she has a pink limo. WHICH 99.9% likely came from her parents! It's not like she's an adult and can just go out and BUY her own frickin' limo! And the most pink I see her wear is, HELLO! School uniform. Which she doesn't get much options...

And I'm ranting. I need to stop ranting. I'm sorry. It's just I started reading a well written fic, until they came across Relena, "Teh Pweety Pink Pwincess! who psychostalks the pilots", Heero twitched, she glomped. And I'm frustrated at not being able to find good fic that treats Relena with respect.

Oh god, the relena bashing as a matter of course. and when you read you're all good fic, good characterization -- oh hey a psycho bitch from hell, also stupid and ugly and evil. Wat.

Also her school uniform isn't even really pink, it's burgundy! It's not like barbie pink, damn it. DX Besides her pink limo is still better than Dorothy's gold-plated monstrosity.

I fear Dorothy's Gold-plated monstrousity doesnt really compare to her eyebrows of forked doom.

And, hoinestly, i can really see where one might claim that Relena is pink obsessed, what really makes me fume over Relena bashing is how they go on and on about her constant obsessing over Heero to the point of stalker-must-kill-duo like state, she wasnt the best written female character of all time, but she was generally likeable b the end of the series.

... to be honest, I found Relena more likeable and better written than Ginny Weasley from Harry Potter... but Relena got more screentime than Ginny.

That's not to say I don't like Ginny. I like her, it's just... I wish there had been more time spent defining Ginny as herself, and not just Ginny/some current new boyfriend how DARE she not date Harry, and blargh.

What makes you think Relena is pink obsessed, just wondering?

I love how this thread has become i like Random girl A more than random girl B because ^^

As for Relena, I dont actually support the theory that she is a pink obsessed stalker. I was just saying I can understand where the fans get the idea.

Her clothing, for a while consist of that Pinkish uniform, and from the loos of the other girls, she has a choice in the matter so obviously she chose it. and there is of course Pink Limo of doom. It isnt as bad as Gold plated monstrousity but one only has a pink limo because they like the color pink.

Its Just easy to pick on her about it because of the artists color choices, but no i dont really support those ideas.

Eh, stuff happens. And it's true. Sometimes you do like RGA over RGB because. And sometimes there is no because.

Could you please explain on why you believe she had a choice in her uniform? I'm curious/maybe missed something.

And I'd like to argue the "One only has a pink limo because they like the color pink." If said pink limo was a gift from a relative, or the parents are just that domineering (which I doubt is the case for the Darlians, but it's still an option), she'd be stuck in a pink limo, since she isn't 18 yet. *I* almost got stuck with a pink road monster because my grandmother bought it, until my parents talked her around. And even then, I had to argue with my grandmother that, "Pink's okay, I Just Don't Like It" "But you're a girl!" "That doesn't mean I like pink."

And I'm back to ranting. I apologize, but grandma scared me off of pink since I was the oldest granddaughter.... come to think of it, I don't think ANY of her granddaughters like pink.

Forgive me if im wrong on this, cause its been like 10 years since ive sat down and watched GW, I just recall that when she was still in school, the first one not her little peace talk one later, that her outfit was a different color than the rest of the girls, therefor implying she picked the color. I really dont remember the scene that well, I could be wrong. when you read as much fiction as I do, sometimes it all jumbles together.

as for the limo, i think you answered your own question, yea it could have been a gift, but somehow I doubt a limo was a gift, even for her. realistically, the artists just enjoyed identifying Relena with pink, cause that dress was awefully pink.

This is what prompted my muse to start a GW/Harry Potter crossover, after one too many Relena bashings in an otherwise well written fic.

*muses* I really should post the first part on my LJ....

*Edges in, nervous wave*

Hi, I'm, uh, kinda a lurker on the forum. ~~That, and I may have kinda sorta maybe forgotten my login info for my livejournal.~~

I do completely agree with you on the issue. Sakura is not just a prize trophy to be won over, and I despise the fics where that happens (And I'm a NaruSaku shipper, and they ESPECIALLY piss me off. Gaaah, Sakura's her own woman with her own feelings, wants, and desires).

If you don't mind the rec, I would like to link you to a GOOD NaruSaku fic. It's still in progress, it's kinda on the large side, and so far there's only been hints of attraction in the latest chapters, so far it's been mostly about building the bonds between teammates.

Which is kinda a problem, since Naruto isn't a Konoha nin in this, and Sakura IS. It's beautifully written, the imagery is gorgeous, and the author admits that she isn't perfect.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5827210/1/bA_b_bVoice_b_in_the_bWind_b

Sorry if you don't want to read it and the rec is unwelcome, but I wanted to show that there ARE good NaruSaku fics out there, they're just kinda hard to find.

Thank you for the link (recs are good! I'd never find good fic otherwise, thank you), I just don't read fics where Team Seven doesn't exist or Naruto was raised by someone else and turned out completely different. It's not that I think they generally suck, it's just not my taste, like time travel. What interests me the most in this fandom is the bonds between Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura, and if they don't exist right from the start and never will, for me there is no point in reading.

Tangentially, I don't get why so many narusaku fics can only happen if Sasuke is dead, evil, or doesn't matter to either of them. I should finish reading Shade of the Leaf, it started out pretty okay about the way it treated Sasuke.

Edited 2011-05-31 01:45 (UTC)

I certainly have to agree with your words on Naruto; he's not going to suddenly decide that he needs something from Sakura. And I love Sakura, and NaruSaku too. I do think that Sakura has been shown to use Naruto's feelings a little bit to her advantage, though. I would never go as far as to call her a cocktease (also, nobody except Jiraiya in Naruto even thinks about sex) and I certainly don't think that Sakura is a cunt or anything close. Of course it was a long time ago when Sakura begged Naruto to bring Sasuke back (and she even tried to tell Naruto that he didn't need to do that anymore, which made me VERY happy with her) but more recently(ish) when she was left to make her own plan, and decided to kill Sasuke, it involved trying to convince Naruto that she was in love with him instead of Sasuke, and that was a bit of a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion. Though I (NaruSasu shipper that I am) do actually understand Sakura's motives for wanting to kill Sasuke, however ill-conceived. Well, I suppose that the only reason I would have to not want someone kill Sasuke is my blind faith in Naruto (that it would be nice to see Sakura develop, although it may be counterproductive to her growth as a ninja.)

And to your comment

"Tangentially, I don't get why so many narusaku fics can only happen if Sasuke is dead, evil, or doesn't matter to either of them. I should finish reading Shade of the Leaf, it started out pretty okay about the way it treated Sasuke."

on someone else's post, I think that's just lazy writing. It would be much, much more difficult to actually have to DEAL with that issue, instead of just making it a non-issue.

Woo. Sorry for the lengthy rant. Apparently I don't get to talk about this enough...

Well, since i guess there arent a lot of fanboys to argue our side of things, I guess its required that I say something ^^. Personally, i think the majority of fanboys that support that evil side of the fiction is the 'strait' side of them who really cant appreciate anything of the written persuasion if it isnt a slut-filled fuck fest. Being a shounen-ai fan myself, i generally dont have this issue ^^, but ive certainly read a handful of fics in all fandoms written by men, and more often then not, even if they start off with a good premise, they always turn into bland harem fics. The only advice i can offer when dealing with fanboys is to expect bad, but give em the chance cause every once in a while they surprise you.

As for Sakura being an underachiever, i really blame Kishimoto on that. He has certainly given her some epic moments. The beginning of Shippuden, just recently with the Neji impersonator, and even her failed attempt on Sasuke, that one really threw me. In the end though, he is writing a shounen series, and typically women in shounen series are either love interests with little use or less useful heroines who are there to support but never be better than the main male cast. If she had been male, I promise you Kishimoto would have made her much more on the scale of Shika-useful.

as for NaruxSaku, im a total NaruxHina shipper, when it comes to any strait shipping fr the series, so i can say id be happy if they never go together canon or Fanon. Im quite happy with the sibling relationship they seem to have.

also, just to be random, how long you think its gonna be before Kabutomaru betrays Madara?

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oh my god it's been so long since something had pissed me off THAT much

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