askerian | this icon has never been more appropriate.

Entry tags:

this icon has never been more appropriate.

http://asimaiyat.livejournal.com/143173.html => very interesting post from a polyamorous person on polyamory in real life and its inclusion in fanfic.

This makes me want to rant up a storm about the NaruSasuSaku ot3 for some unfathomable reason. XD But I don't know where to start. Anyone got specific topics to throw at me?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

One that annoys me the most is when the relationship is really about one of them, or two (i.e, Naruto can't choose between Sasuke and Sakura, Sakura gets the two dudes and best of both words (but it's totally not gay!), or two of them are together and the other is just... there sometimes as a fuckbuddy), and not a relationship that the three of them are in a relationship that they all chose ~as a team~ and it's important to all of them. (Or if it is one of the situations like above, it is never ever addressed, ever.)
But I feel like that's more of a character thing, and really depends on the writer and if they handle the characters and the relationship well.

I know that there are also a lot of "lol let's fix our screwed up team dynamic by sleeping together, that won't complicate things ever!" But that's mostly PWP so I... don't really care so much? (/shallow)

Hrmm. I can't really think of anything other than that. Mostly just the ways the characters are out of character in reference to the relationship tends to annoy me.

... ARE YOU ME???

That's my BIGGEST pet peeve about the way some people write the ot3. Hell, even twosome fics fuck up the team dynamics. SasuNaru fics forget Sakura is their friend and teammate and is important, or treat her as an evil interloper harpy, NaruSaku treat Sasuke as either evil or dead, often with and-they-didn't-really-like-him-anyway tacked on, and SasuSaku at best treats Naruto like an irrelevant pet rock that has no impact on either of them, like he's just backdrop to their great and tragic romance. >___>

"sakura gets two boyfriends because she's just that Suetastic" is ew. Potentially hot for PWP purposes, but in long fic it pisses me off a bit, especially with the "but the boys are NOT GAY!!!" thing, mostly because it reeks of either homophobia or reverse harem mindset, where she can be as selfish as she wants and eat her cake and keep it too, but THEY can't have a significant other apart from her because it would take away from their adoration of her. (this pisses me off in any "X has two Ys but they can't have anyone else!!!" though, no matter which genders are involved and how.)

But the one that irritates me the most is Naruto being adored by Sasuke and Sakura both, but there being no sasusaku bond to speak of, because I've never seen it done without OOC or unfortunate implications. maybe it exists but I haven't found it.

OOC:
-Sasuke, the guy who lost everything in his life EVER, doesn't (in the story) really like Sakura much as a friend or teammate, but is still willing to share with her the ONE person who has wormed their way through his emotional walls. He is not jealous somehow, he is not emotionally insecure, and he poses no "it's her or me" ultimatum. Or if he is, it's okay because Naruto will ~~sex~~ talk him into compromising, even if he has issues with the situation. Sasuke loves to compromise, and he's not the "too prideful for his own good" type at ALL. :/

-Sakura fell out of love with Sasuke because
1) she saw who he truly was (an utter asshole), or
2) naruto was totes better as a person so she traded up, or
3) after several years she just suddenly lost interest in his angst and brokenness because she is fickle as the autumn skies

1) so then if sasuke is such a terrible person for her to be in a relationship with, and she's protective of Naruto, why does she allow Sasuke/Naruto? Just because Naruto wants him, she shuts up about how/isn't listened to if she thinks Sasuke is bad for him?
2) biiiiiitch D:
3) BIIIIIITCH. I mean moving on happens, but still if she moved on then why would she want her NEW boyfriend to drag her back?

-Naruto is perfectly fine with the two people he loves the most in the world compromising with each other and not being 100% satisfied/fulfilled/happy, so long as HE gets what he wants. Yeah, because suddenly he's not the guy who quietly left them alone in the hospital room when he saw how desperately Sakura was hugging Sasuke and who promised the girl he loves he'd bring his rival in love back no matter what so she would feel better and who got more pissed over the fact that Sakura was giving up on Sasuke than on her lying about her feelings for the two of them.

One reasoning that would work for me, in a poly relationship where Naruto dates them both but they don't date each other, is that Sasuke is gay and not sexually interested in Sakura, especially if she has worked on her feelings to go from horrible horrible crush to quiet friendship, and since he doesn't feel hounded by her anymore he has relaxed around her and, I dunno, found that he could have pretty good discussions with her or something.

And even then, I want to see Naruto at least sparing a thought or two to the worry that that maybe he's being selfish, or if we're leaning on his emotionally oblivious side, some kind of incident that makes him realize the issue and then fret over it.

I feel like if there HAS to be a strong focal point, then Sasuke would be the most IC, considering how they are acting and feeling in canon. Naruto and Sakura have always supported each other's attachment to Sasuke and seen Sasuke as their most important person and they're friendly with each other. But even then, most IC as a starting point PERHAPS but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be issues to resolve -- otherwise even then it doesn't really work.

For example Naruto going from "best friend" to "other lover" might upset things between Naruto and Sakura. Sakura might feel jealous or like Naruto is already "the best friend", damn it, and now he wants to be "the lover" too and if he's everything to Sasuke then what is her place, isn't she redundant? Naruto might want to step back because he's feeling selfish for intruding, like he did in the hospital room; he already proved he had a self-sacrifical streak when it comes to encouraging the sasuke/sakura bond. With recent canon and the fake confession, Sakura might feel awkward as hell that she was rejected so bluntly and that she placed her willingness to be with naruto in terms of "well sasuke isn't here anymore" and feel really bad because that would have hurt Naruto, Naruto might think she doesn't see him as a boyfriend but as a brother and is never going to change her mind and she's trying to lie about her feelings to do what she thinks must be done. Sakura might not feel good enough as a person for Naruto. Etcetera.

Anyway there are likely ways to make V-type relationships work with Team Seven no matter the focal point, even despite how tangled up they all are (though I prefer OT3 to mean they all feel love for each other even if they've got preferences) but it's really rarely adressed well. Even "Sakura has two boyfriends who are NOT GAY" might work, if the powerful platonic bond with Sasuke and Naruto was really explored in a "you are my SOULMATE, it's just your plumbing doesn't turn me on", but even then there would be issues with worry about how perhaps they're using Sakura as a replacement/surrogate for the sex they wish they could have with each other. (Writing "Sakura has two boyfriends" when there's no real strong bond between Sasuke and Naruto and they're just generically okay with polyamory... well, that might work in AU but I have trouble thinking of a configuration I find less unappealing. At least other configurations have the potential for interesting angst or sexy dysfunction, but this one really just smacks of "the author cannot choose between banging sasuke and banging naruto, and doesn't care about any bonds they might have outside of the ones with her proxy.")

I love how entangled they are with each other, how they gravitate around each other and no other bond really competes. But they're all fucked up people on their own, and all the twosome bonds have serious problems to fix, AND the "threesome" thing brings its own set of specific issues to juggle... But in the other hand -- hey, I don't know, sometimes it really does think as if, if only we could put the pieces together right, they'd just all click and then it would be magical. I think it's that possibility that appeals to me. Naruto can keep Sasuke and Sakura from dragging each other down into depression, Sakura can keep Naruto and Sasuke from clashing and rubbing each other raw (NOW she could, at least, now that she has grown), and Sasuke just makes Naruto and Sakura happy for some weird reason and they'd be less likely to put on a fake smile and lie to each other for their own good if he was here, because he can see through them both and he might just decide to cut right through their bullshit.

... ARE YOU ME???
PROBABLY NOT. I WISH, THOUGH.

YES. YES TO ALL OF THIS.

It feels like, in fic*, most authors ignore the fact that they were A TEAM first, and either tend to shunt one character off to the side for their ~epic true love~ pairing preference, or they cannot choose between one pairing or the other and just decide "well threesome!", without considering the different characters as different entities, and what this means to all of them individually as well as as a team.

Personally I have always felt that they work the best as a team, in whatever combination (either a v-shape or a triangle or something platonic or whatever), and these are and always will be their most important bonds. (Even between other Team 7 members, nothing really comes close) And the nature of that relationship is so often ignored in fic.

Sasuke, the guy who lost everything in his life EVER, doesn't (in the story) really like Sakura much as a friend or teammate, but is still willing to share with her the ONE person who has wormed their way through his emotional walls.
I have always hated the idea that Sasuke doesn't really like Sakura, because, well, CANON SAYS NO. He doesn't have to be romantically attracted to her, he could be completely gay for all we know, but he respects her as a teammate. It is one of the fanfiction tropes that I hate most, because it is such a prevalent fanon (especially among the NaruSasu crowd), and always, always (to me, at least) reeks of demonizing the female main for the sake of the ONE TRUE MALE RELATIONSHIP, which makes me rage a lot.

And then Sasuke is demonized in much the same way as Sakura in the NaruSasu crowd, which in my experience tends to glorify Naruto. This section of fandom, I have noticed, also tend to treat Sakura's affections like a prize to be won for Naruto being the ~better man~, without ever taking into account her own feelings on the subject.

SasuSaku fandom, on the other hand, tends to shunt Naruto away in favor of the "true and epic tragic love", without ever considering his feelings for Sakura, or his bond with Sasuke, and how this translates into the two of them having a relationship.

And I am never ever a fan of characters being demonized or ignored or used in fiction and never taking issue with it. (Especially female characters, adjfikl, but that is a whole other ballcourt and while I could take the idea and run with it forever, THAT IS NOT THE TOPIC AT HAND)

And I feel like these fanon-ideas tend to come out in a lot of ot3 fic, which creates problematic power dynamics. Which are never really addressed according to the characters. I'm alright with some of these for PWP because sex can be messy, and sometimes the implications aren't considered and don't have to be considered, but each of these characters are kind of messed up in their own way, and even if ot3 is the magical fix to all of their problems (yes, yes please!), some of these things need to be considered, I feel, instead of being left like a big elephant in the room.

But I think a lot of that is a general trend in fanfiction for characters to never discuss their relationships. Which, once again, whole other ballpark, but it's another thing that annoys me.

*though I have been largely ignoring Naruto fandom for the past few months because it makes me a crazy neurotic mess, so I have no idea what the fic-central fallout from Sakura's fake-confession has been.

T^T TEAMMATES COME FIRST BEFORE EVERYTHING TEAMSEVENFOREVERAAAAA. Even platonic, damn it! Grmbl.

I have always hated the idea that Sasuke doesn't really like Sakura, because, well, CANON SAYS NO.

Indeed! He doesn't seem to see her as an equal like he does Naruto, but he's protective of her and tells her stuff he doesn't tell Naruto or Kakashi, too.

In the narusaku fandom as well, Sasuke is usually depicted as not giving much of a damn about her at best. The very best fics have him being indifferent-ish in a positive way, like "why are you asking me? your romantic entanglements are your business, of course i don't mind", which I guess is fair enough, but so many of them who have a sasuke in them either have an evil sasuke or one who's already conveniently shacked up with someone else... or conveniently dead in a tragic way so naruto and sakura have a reason to fall into each other's arms. *cuddles poor sasuke* D:

And, yes on Sakura being treated as a trophy to be won and her affections shifting because it's the logical thing to fall for the better man, no matter that their personalities are completely different and Sakura looking for a cool boyfriend in awesome!sasuke was back when she was a shallow 12 year old who hadn't seen him get scared or have major issues yet. Mergh. But, that's straying a little from OT3.

I haven't been reading much naruto fic recently so I can't tell you what it's like post-confession or post-sasuke attack. I think people are pretty entrenched in their ideas and headcanons by now and it'll likely take a little longer for the new ideas to become clearer and settle in people's minds.

I remember reading a NaruSasuSaku fanfic where Sakura existed only to make sue babies of Sasuke and Naruto, that inherited everything from their appearances to their jutsu from their fathers. Then she died after giving birth to the second one in about... the second chapter, and the general plot was OMG Naruto and Sasuke as teenage parents (and of course they never mess up and Sasuke is a total natural as a father). Even after this, the story was still labelled as an OT3 which really pissed me off...

_{Did I mention that this Sasuke was Super Seme Sasuke-sama, and Naru-chan was the weepy uke housewife who literally wanders around barefoot in the kitchen feeding a baby all day, crying intermittently about his unending love for Sasuke? Rant in itself, I know.}

Of course, the author never mentioned Sakura again, except a one-off when Itachi wonders what happened to Sasuke's pink teammate, and it's more 'I could have sworn there were three of you. Oh well'. And this is practically off-screen - Itachi is spying on Sasuke and Naruto's candle lit dinner date.

I think the writer deleted the fanfic. It was really old, and I can't find it anywhere. Good riddance -_-

... ghhhhkgkh. DX

Man, that reminds me, there was that fic which had naruto and sasuke super in love but naruto had some lust for Sakura and she was using that to get to Sasuke who was being all seme yet sacrificial for Naruto's happiness but he was disgusted by that bitch. Somehow. I forget the details, I tried to rub them out of my brain because they disgusted me so much. I distinctly remember the author seriously disliked Sakura in general and I have no clue why the fuck she thought it would be a good idea, apparently it wasn't supposed to be bashing, far as i can recall she thought sakura was IC. Anyway it started with the line "So, how are we going to do this", so then I stole that line and wrote my porny oneshot where they have their first time as a sakura sandwich in a hotel room, because fuck that noise.

I don't know which is worse, this one had OOC and bashing but it was at least openly, and while negative she still had a role to play. Yours had her pretty much as a convenient, one-use-only uterus. I wonder which one truly is the most insulting.

Sasuke: omg narooto-chyaan i luv u but u luv sakuraaa and im gunna let u evn tho shes a ttl hoooooor
Naruto: I'm going to include Sakura who's totally using me to get to you in our relationship even though you obviously hate her guts!
Sakura: SASKAY-KUUN LOOK AT MAH BOOBS. THAT ARE PRESSED AGAINST NARUTO'S FACE. _{get in mah boobies}

Oh that's totally IC.

It wasn't a one-use uterus (new tongue twister?) - she managed to pop out a Sasuke clone AND twin Naruto clones before she got splattered.

I think the one you found is better. At least Sasuke and Naruto don't forget about her supposedly gruesome death after a day of 'our kids won't have a mother D:' BECAUSE THAT'S ALL A WOMAN IS FOR.

Sakura sandwiches are best served with a side of Sasuke onigiri, followed by Naruto-style naruto.
Yeah so I just drove that metaphor into the ground.

That post just opened up a whole new world to me. slkf;nsf Amazing.

And I would LOVE to read an OT3 rant from you. I might be a little scared though, since I've only read OT3 from either your favorites or Teamwork itself. .__. Mostly because I'm not sure I want another OneTrue ruined by fandom for me. I might not want to know what fandom has done to my OT3.

I've seen AMVs though, and... about the only thing that bothers me is a NaruSakuSasu, in which they both have Sakura at the same time and are totes not gay about it, because they have this epic bromance that couldn't even be slightly corrupted even if they're both in the same bed in a sexual situation.

8|

♥

I would love to rant about good things re:ot3! Not only evil stupid fandom things. .__. I just can't figure out the topic.

oh yeah, i've seen AMVs like that too. meh. -__-;;

Your Mihashi icon is going to make me rewatch season 1 of Oofuri even though I've already rewatched it twice since season 2 started. I don't know what they put in that thing to make it so addictive but I'm a lost cause.

Thanks for the link. I found the post to be very educational.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

this icon has never been more appropriate.

no subject

no subject

no subject

comment is neither coherent or inherently insightful

Re: comment is neither coherent or inherently insightful

tl;dr - Sakura's only purpose in OT3 is to give Sasuke and Naruto sue children, then die.

Re: tl;dr - Sakura's only purpose in OT3 is to give Sasuke and Naruto sue children, then die.

Re: tl;dr - Sakura's only purpose in OT3 is to give Sasuke and Naruto sue children, then die.

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject