askerian | (no subject)

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Thing is, by this point the characters, especially Heero, are almost as much my OCs as they are the original characters. I can't make it an ofic because it started to grow on so many canon things. Heero's "family" being a repenting assassin for hire who meant well but was still emotionally handicapped and raised a child who grew to see himself as a weapon and his life as being cheap. Heero's socialization being weird and almost nonexistent. His strange views on life, his ideals, his everything. His terrorist days, his repentance. His shared history with the other pilots. His freakin' gundam.

I'll never finish the original fic anyway. I grew up, the original story didn't, and there are too many plotholes to fix. Yet the characters kept growing anyway.

So now I have an arc in my head, of accidentally-werewolf-heero, the one who never really fit in anywhere but with the other four pilots, having to deal with what being a werewolf means, what it made of him. Having a pack comprised of one other wolf (actually a red wolf -- that is, a wolf/coyote crossbreed. XD) and three felines, but it works for all of them because even for a wolf Heero isn't normal. Doing his best to keep himself out of the strange secret werewolf society even though the local alpha keeps watching him with suspicion.

And then one day there's this injured, scared were running into his house because they have literally no choice, nowhere else to turn that they won't be followed, even though heero's seen as a freak for having a cat as his mate, for thinking cats make a pack, for not even *wanting* to be one of them, wanting to *belong*, and still living more inside his human life than using it as a cover for his real self. And then he doesn't think farther than "You asked. You're mine. I'll protect you."

He could have chosen a better moment to get involved, because he's in the middle of a case, but what's done is done. His friends aren't even surprised.

Then he has a terrified, ultra-submissive guy/girl to take care of and protect... and then a second and a third (the caring for part he delegates to trowa at first because wolves are touchy-feely with their pack, but he isn't. He's never been, and for an alpha that's creepy.), and he just declared war on a pack he always ignored over a territory he doesn't want, but at this point it's either "take over the pack" or "abandon the one who asked for your protection and move out, uprootng your whole life" and fuck if he'll run away from anyone. And he tries to tell the other gboys that he doesn't want to get them involved and they're all stfu of course we're involved, and quatre already has reports ready on who's who in the pack and everything because of COURSE a young alpha on the egde of his territory was gonna piss off the local alpha eventually, it wasn't a matter of if but of when. And then they're all "yeah, they don't accept us, we're weird, we don't fit in, but you know what, we're gonna kick their asses together anyway. we're here to stay and they'll have to deal with that."

Duo would love making the wolves uneasy, angry. He's not in the chain of command and that fits him real well, but he can kick all of their asses anyway so hey, whatev'. Wufei is a freakin' tiger; he goes where he wants, does whatever he wants, when he wants to. He terrifies them. And he pretends he's not really involved, but he's always in the background taking care of problems Heero hadn't even seen yet. And Trowa, Trowa and Heero are really close in this and Trowa becomes his second in command in the pack because he's really the only one the rest will accept entirely, not just tolerated. But of course it's Quatre who truly starts the process of getting the three cats accepted.

And then there would be a whole arc about Heero balancing his cases and his full time job with the other full time job of dealing with pack politics. And Heero learning to navigate it -- sometimes their way, sometimes by saying "I don't care what's always been done until now, I'm doing it my way" -- and learning to deal with people looking to him for leadership, and people -- civilians of sorts -- actually maybe even *liking* and trusting him. And bringing some modernity in the pack instead of that ancient, written in stone bullshit and that mindset that they're not human at all and all other sorts of things.

It's got almost nothing to do with the actual show anymore, it's so derivative, but if I take out the basis of the characters then it just stops working anymore. I don't know what other kind of backstory could take me there.

It's just going to have to live on in my head.

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That makes me really sad to hear, because that story? Sounds freaking awesome. :( I get your reasoning, but I still really wish I could read it.

Oh hey-- I've noticed something in a couple of your stories (I'm re-reading garou now, but in the more recent ones as well). Do you know the difference between "I see what you mean" and "I know what you mean" in english?

... not really? I guess one of them is "... oooh! I realize now" and another is "yeah, I think so too." XD;;; When i'm not thinking I use them pretty interchangeably. >__>;;

That's pretty much it, yes. "see" carries connotations of "I didn't understand before, but I do now", and "know" carries connotations of "yup, I already knew that and I agree" - not dissimilar in some respects to "yeah, tell me about it".

Also, I concur - the scenario you're sketching sounds wonderful, and I'd be glad to read it knowing nothing more about the backstory than I do now. I've read AU fics which make bigger changes than the ones you seem to be describing - such as, say, that one "Iruka as a den mother" Naruto/X-Men fusion whose name I can never remember - and adjusted to the continuity just fine without more explanation than could be picked up reading the story.

For that matter, I've read quite a bit of fic based on fandoms I knew nothing about - such as, say, most of what Vathara's written - and picked up the salient points with little difficulty, and that's really the same kind of "stepping in without the background"...

xovers....they either suck hairy balls ... or are utterly great. GW xovers, depending on what its crossed with trends toward one of three things: just plain weird(cough cough Sailor Moon crap), overly supernatural, or techno-babble shit.

I've read some pretty good xovers though. But since I judge by plot balance, background, and writing style, I should probably admit that there are some types of xovers I avoid just on principle.

That being said I recommend the following as excellent GW xovers:
Also don't shoot me if you've already read them. ^.^'

Paralle: A GW/HP xover at GWaddiction.com by Stormy
Into the Heart of Darkness: A GW/X-men xover at GWaddiction.com by Stormy (this one's really dark. And since it hasn't been updated in years I doubt it will ever be finished)
Living Shinigami: A GW/Yami no Matsuei xover at MM.org by Comechatcha
A Theif in One Life, A Theif in the Next: A GW/YYH xover at MM.org by Comechatcha
Red and Blue Makes Purple: a GW/Naruto xover at MM.org by Comechatcha
Violet Turned Red: A GW/Hellsing xover at FF.net by Comechatcha
(She seems rather prolific in the GW xover section doesn't she??)
On a Pale Horse: A GW/Valdemar(novel) xover at FF.net by Rally Collins

There's a couple more I could recommend but I need to find them first.

♥

Nowhere is it written that you can't write an AU of your AU. Just saying, 'cause I like your summary and it beats much of the were crap on the actual published market. ^__^

I have to ask- is it entirely impossible at this point just to start over? Make a prelude to place the characters roughly where you want them in your "old" storyline and just go from there, painting in the parts you want and letting the silly parts live in the old story?

Pretty much. In the original fic they had about 35 chapters to grow into the tangle of friendship and love this one story assumes as a background. If it needs me to summarize a whole epic just to get to the start... eh. u__u;;;

That does sound like a big job, yes. I'm not sure it wouldn't be possible to skip it and just start "in media res" (or something in that general vein), but it might not fit your style.

Is there any reason it wouldn't be possible to go back and actually more-literally start over, rewriting the story from the beginning and fixing the problems that keep it from being workable (which is easier in a retelling than in an edit of existing material, which is what it sounds like you were talking about with the "too many plotholes to fix" in the second paragraph of this post)?

(Also, is there some reason why LJ is suggesting "plo tholes" as a spellchecker fix for the word "plotholes"?)

I don't think a retelling would work. There are some things that are now pretty heavy-handed or even kinda ridiculous and irrealistic in their cliche-ness and lack of logic, yet they're a part of the background of the current characters.

Also, frankly, it's WAY too big. I'm discouraged just thinking of it. It would take me years even if I could keep up the concentration needed. ~__~;;

(... *snerk* that's weird. maybe it's set to another language? i'd have no idea which, though)

People read sequels all the time without having read the original story.

Just point to the old dead story and make clear that it's deader than dead, and start your new shiny story.
Cause were-G-boys were AWESOME !

(Hahaha, ça me donne envie de relire "Heero's week" XD)

Totally agreeing to that n__n

Garou is dead but never can realy be dead ! If you do this shinny sidefic I'LL READ ! and probably love it...

Once you fall into GW fandom you can never really leave it...

*moment of nostalgia* Every time you post about Garou I can't believe I never read it way back when I was still a larval fangirl for GW ~~and cluelessly wondering why there were so many stories of boys doing naughty things with/to other boys. XD~~ I don't quite remember if I was in my "WEREWOLVES ARE AWESOME AND GOTH, what do you mean only vampires are goth, werewolves are ALSO goth AND MORE AWESOME THAN UNDEAD MOSQUITOS" phase at the time, though. *needs to cross-reference old paper journals for "so I found a Heero/Relena fanfic but then Duo joined in and did stuff to Heero and do boys really like that sort of thing? And then I watched American Werewolf In London again, oh my gosh that movie is THE BEST EVER. :D"* I was such an adorably dim little fan-grub. XD;;; I would have LOVED this story, had I known it existed. ♥

And one tiny, nitpickiest-of-nitpicky mentions--I hate doing this because I always get teased about it (i.e., "Do you have to do this every time, Ms. Jeopardy Trivia, or can you shut up the biologist in your brain?")--but…red wolves are a unique species, not wolf/coyote hybrids. They do breed with coyotes--this is actually one of the major threats to the population--but a true red wolf has its own taxonomical classification, Canis rufus. (And if you already knew, YES red wolf love~! ♥ If not, spreading zoological facts is like an addiction for me, srsly. I need a support group or something. XD;;;; Red wolves are also native to my area, so I've got some regional pride invested in them along with my standard "OMG WOLVES ♥♥♥" fanatical love.)

~~you're so cute. T^T SO CUTE.~~

Huh, really? Last time I researched (which was like five-ten years ago XD) they'd just found out that zomg that rare wolf subspecies didn't deserve protection for endangered species because it was just a stupid crossbreed omg XD ... and wiki editors have been having a war about it last year apparently. XDDD

Either way, Trowa is a hybrid. It fits him better. XD

Ah! Yeah, I remember that being a big debate a few years back. (Though if there was a Wikipedia editing war about it, apparently it still is! Hair-splitting arguments about taxonomy have a longer half-life than plutonium radiation, I swear.) Actually, I think I remember people bitching about the red wolf exhibit at our local zoo, though it was quite a few years ago and I don't remember if they were just complaining about how much it was gonna cost, or if it was about how red wolves weren't real wolves/were just a subspecies/were just coyote-dogs/weren't cute enough/some other nonsense argument with generous sprinklings of "they're just animals why are they wasting so much of my money on things that are not roads or construction BAWWWW." Though the zoo obviously gave them the finger and built/renovated it anyway; the last time I went to the zoo I got to see the wolves, and they were SO CUTE. ♥ One of them was eating a chicken. XD

I totally agree, though, Trowa = hybrid. (Does he ever get teased ~~or worse, eek~~ about being a mutt? *l♥ves crossbreeds and mutts, planning a whole comic about them* XD)

...sure you won't ever write it? Because I'd definitely read it. And it is possible to take a fic-based idea and spin and spin until it has nothing to do with the original series. (Heck, Bartender was originally a Kingdom Hearts fic idea...)

<3 the original. ^_^ I don't care if you think it has too many plotholes, it was just so fun to see the changes the were gene wrought on everybody. (And the suspense of omg-Will Duo ever be a were too?-ness) ^_^

^_^ I think your head must be a fun place, if thoughts like this are bubbling about. Question: is this set post war and gundam activity then? You mention Heero with a job- is this Preventer timeline?

haha, the suspense. *cackles evilly*

Yeah, post-war, they're around 20 year old I think, and working for a Preventers analogue (that might be called preventers or something else, i dunno). I don't know yet because Treize being still alive means Une might choose another path (treize is barred from stuff like that -- people in charge are too scared he'll build himself a private army with his scary charisma once again XD), but someone else would probably see the need and do it instead of her. I don't know if the gboys would work with someone they didn't know personally, though, because at least Une would never see kids before she sees competent operatives and she'd know better than to try manipulating them.

I think it would be perfectly legitimate to just write this story, letting their current relationships just be assumed... I can't quite put my finger on it, but I feel like it would work... not explicitly stating what they've gone through, but letting it seep into the plot of the new story... I dunno. :) Also, I like that the characters are still living in your head, since they've been living in mine every since I first started reading Garou in 2002. ^_^;;

And hi! I am sort of a lurker.

Hihi ^__^

And I see what you mean, but another problem is that I would start off with, basically, a superpowered Heero, and I don't like those. He starts off this story with abilities, a skill set, and tight emotional bonds that should be attained at the end of a story arc, not be handed out from the beginning. For a sequel it would work, but since i haven't finished it and it's an old story I'd have to make it stand on its own... and, well, it just bugs me.

Maybe if I did it AU and, while assuming similar war-related events, take away the zomgtruelove of his thing with Duo (that is, start where they're not together yet) and his perfect control over his werewolf abilities... hrrrrm. I don't know.

*sighflop* like i don't have enough stories to work on already. T__T

XD in your situation I would just say "Dammit Imma going to remake it and they shall be CLONES"

As someone who thoroughly enjoys your fanfic Newtypes, despite otherwise having next to no knowledge of or interest in the GW series, I also say write it and let the readers decide if they can't follow it without the background material. If it's great, great! And if it isn't, oh well.

Bottom line: if it is a story you want to explore, write it. It's not like your contractually obliged to write this or that piece of fiction.

Go for it - why not? Point at Garou ("So it was in the beginning, but I'm not going to write any more than what's there") and then jump into what you want to do.

I think I've already mentioned I'm a sucker for dynamics, so:

(...)dealing with pack politics. And Heero learning to navigate it -- sometimes their way, sometimes by saying "I don't care what's always been done until now, I'm doing it my way"

Do you have examples?

Well, some of the ways the pack deals with each other comes from either wolf instincts or common sense, but some of it is traditional stupidity, like the fact that a woman just cannot possibly be unattached because she needs to be making babies in the hopes that at least half of them will survive to adulthood. Thing is, the packs mostly gain new members by contamination anyway -- born-wolves aren't inherently different or better, apart from a social status thing that doesn't matter half as much as how dominant you are, and there's never been enough of them to survive on (and even if you succeeded, you'd have a lot of inbreeding problems in a couple of generations).

Also a lot of "oh, we're wolves, not humans, and we have instincts they just don't get that we can't be expected to control, so we can't live with humans, so we'll just be uncomfortable around them when we have to be around them and avoid them the rest of the time, so since we're not gonna spend a lot of time around them we're not gonna learn how to blend in comfortably" circular reasoning. And yes, they're right that for a lot of wolves it's awkward at a visceral level, but it's not impossible either. (Heero just doesn't realize because he never fit in with his peers and he's basically been socially impaired his whole life. He doesn't notice any difference now. XD)

Also there's a real OMG WHAT YOU DIDNT when the gboys ask Sally, a normal human ( a HUMAN D: ) to figure out some kind of vaccine so they're not contagious. because they DO go out and work with norms, and it just so happens that their job sometimes involves them bleeding on people. And they figure, hey, sometimes a were might want a relationship with a human and not want to risk their death if they kiss them so it can't be all bad. But OMG NOW WE HAVE TO CONTAMINATE HER SO SHE'S ONE OF US AND DOESN'T SPILL OUR SECRETS. u___u;; Of course Heero's answer to that is "stfu, i trust her more than i trust any of you guys and i don't care if she's human, she's one of my pack anyway, and if you bite her i'll kill you." (considering her age, there's a huge, 95% chance she wouldn't survive. So.)

(Heero just doesn't realize because he never fit in with his peers and he's basically been socially impaired his whole life. He doesn't notice any difference now. XD)

Oh, Heero, you adorable social retard ♥ But doesn't he notice any difference among the interactions of the other g-boys and humans?

Of course Heero's answer to that is "stfu, i trust her more than i trust any of you guys and i don't care if she's human, she's one of my pack anyway, and if you bite her i'll kill you."

YES. Love love love love. (Stupid weres, if cats are a part of his pack humans can be too.)

Wolf tease...

Urgh, I'm sorry that so much is there in your head but you can't bring yourself to write it... I know that Garou has been a labor of love for you.

If it's still derived from GW, it's still fanfiction, no matter how AU it is... and if it's begging to be written, I say to give it a shot. I mean, it might be worse to hold it in.

Plus, a lot of people who read your writings would read it. (the number depending on the language, of course)

Just a thought, no pressure.

~Sara

After your post, I spent the day thinking (mostly yelling at the cats but also thinking) about the stories I've read with significant backstory relationship between the characters. I actually came up with quite a few -- not uncommon especially in the M/M genre, where it's pretty usual to have a quasi-militaristic male-bonding kind of background for the 'team'. In some cases this means info-dump from the author, but in the better cases, I'm just introduced to the team as it is now and that backstory becomes 'part of the world-building': you get a bit here, a bit there, and let the reader fill in the blanks.

The fact that any GW-derived story would have strong futuristic elements, plus the paranormal (though making it futuristic also means potentially not-earth, or alternate basis than our folklore-werewolf basis, such as genetic engineering or virus or some such) means you've got a lot of other things to world-build (video-phones, or high-speed jet travel, or lack of fossil fuels, etc etc whatever) -- and thus the boys' own backstories become part of that world-building. I don't think it's nearly as infeasible as you think it is.

After all, when you're moving from a fanfic to an ofic, the real question is "would someone with only a passing knowledge of the fandom recognize this character or group of characters as being from that specific fandom"? Given just how many large-cast stories there are -- in western TV & movies as well as in Asian -- the notion of "five boys" is so common that if anything, you may find readers saying, "I'm sure it's an AU" or "it's rumored to be an AU" but then arguing about what AU for which fandom it could possibly be. The addition of your own stylistic touches -- and the paranormal -- further muddy the waters for someone being able to say "this is definitely reminding me of such-and-such well-known story". (Hell, I recall getting crits on an ofic version of an AU, and one reader convinced the story had to be redone Inuyasha, all because one of the characters was described as having furry ears. Wtf, over. There are other fandoms out there... but then, the AU's fandom didn't have furry ears at all. People don't just connect super robots with, uhm, furry ears.)

I say, go for it -- write the story in your head, like you're writing a sequel to an as-yet-unwritten (and maybe never written) first part. Hrm, how to put it: like when you mention a few backstory details to 'refresh' someone's recollection. It's a way of hinting that there's more. I find the best mindset for me is to think of it like I'm writing fanfic, but for a brand-new audience -- where you don't want to recap the entire series, but you do throw in a few 'refresher' notes, just enough to make someone go, 'oh, yeah, okay, I remember that part now' -- that's just the amt of weight you need for a case like this. Enough to make me feel like I'm 'remembering' a story I've never ever read.

You can do it, and like several other folks have mentioned, it's bound to be far, far better than the re-treading were-stories on the market right now. Bleah. Do it! Save us all from the retreads!

XD;; I don't know about making it an ofic -- even if I added my own things on top, I still have Wufei as the angry chinese intellectual-turned-warrior, for example, and that's very recognizable. Could possibly get rid of Quatre...

I've been thinking about ways to do that thing anyway. Figures...

Was thinking, maybe an AU where they just didn't have much time to socialize during the war so they hang out together because there's no one else who really gets it but there's no closeness apart from the "I went through the exact same thing and we have the same ideals". I think it would interest me more, to add some internal "growing closer" to the external "getting accepted as we are by the pack". Hmm. Yes. >__> Maybe I'll try that for NaNo...

Also, if they were contaminated deliberately to give them an advantage. But then what about the full moon? Maybe they had drugs to control that and it fucked them up a little. Ohh. *_* (also that means werepeople are at least half-out to the public -- maybe it's a widely known secret amongst certain circles. ... AUUUUGH I'M PLOTTING.

I do admit, it's more interesting to me than a nth revisitation of "special!!chick meets hot manly-male pack alpha who immediately decides he wants her, on a background of random-blob-of-packness VS vampires". Where's the pack dynamiiiics (apart from "omg she's alpha but she's not even a werewolf/not high-ranked enough/usurping my place as the most dominant femaaaale >E" I mean.)

Oh hell, I'll try it as a fanfic, if only because i'm too lazy to come up with other names for them right now. That always seems to result in whole afternoons lost to baby naming sites.

... I mean. If I write it. Which I won't. Yeah.

Shit.

the angry chinese intellectual-turned-warrior, for example, and that's very recognizable

I don't think so, actually. I mean, if you have a variety of characters in every direction, and shift each of them just a little bit, I don't think a reader would necessarily pinpoint that single character as Wufei. After all, each boy is really nothing more than a re-make of an existing archetype that predates Gundam itself, so if you're drawing on the same archetypes, it means to a reader much of it will feel "familiar" but in a good way. The same way Tolkein's story feels "familiar" even to new readers, because he was using archetypes that predate his story: it's also the reason so many other fantasy stories use the "meet in a tavern to begin the story" because that, too, is a trope or archetype for an adventure.

Or you could go the alternate route, and make Quatre chinese, and Wufei the angry Kenyan intellectual-turned-warrior (as opposed to the angry black man who's a soldier first and not much of a smarts-guy, the usual stereotype), and make Heero the withdrawn and somewhat unsocialized Australian guy (talk about playing against stereotype there), and Duo's the outgoing and up-to-no-good guy from Brazil... When it comes to translating into ofic, I find that a lot of our recognition details are linked to appearances, not personality -- and for some reason, we tend to associate ethnicity with appearance (instead of where I think it belongs more, which is as a part of behavior) -- so we say "chinese guy" and that twigs for us, and if you remove "chinese" and replace with, hrm, "swedish", suddenly most readers will be convinced this isn't at all the same guy. They might say, "he's like that other guy," but not necessarily is that other guy. If you get what I mean.

they just didn't have much time to socialize during the war so they hang out together because there's no one else who really gets it but there's no closeness apart from the "I went through the exact same thing and we have the same ideals"

There are a lot of buddy stories like that, or pack (in a general group-of-close-friends sense) stories. Whatever the common ground: all raised in orphanages, or all with military background, or all spent time in X sport, or all like to race cars on weekends, whatever. I think it'd make perfect sense (and does happen in real life, anyway) to have a group of guys who've bonded over some common ground, who rely on and support each other in their shared attempt to be recognized by a larger related group. Which in this case would be small-pack being acknowledged by large-pack.

But then what about the full moon? Maybe they had drugs to control that and it fucked them up a little.

Or that's psychosomatic. It's your world, y'know. You can give whatever explanation you want for why the full moon is part of it, and as long as you're consistent, that's all that really matters.

werepeople are at least half-out to the public -- maybe it's a widely known secret amongst certain circles. ...

You've got military in your family, so maybe you're aware of military sub-groups like Black Ops or Special Ops -- you know they're in the military, that there are missions that no one can talk about, and vaguely that Things Happen That Aren't Reported ... but that's about it. Maybe some folks put a few things together and realize a bit more, but on the whole, law-abiding people won't ask, figuring that "it's military top-secret stuff and not our business", and those who do obsess about it generally get shoved into the shoebox labeled "crazy conspiracy theorists" and are ignored by most folks. So, sure, some folks may be aware of Special Ops and there's always rumors about military testing on its own people -- witness the massive amount of SFF and thriller/suspense and political/wartime stories with that plotline -- but for the most part, people are sheep and willing to let the military do what it wants so long as that doing doesn't interfere with everyday life. Plus, nobody can really do a cover-up with quite the efficiency and thoroughness as military and government.

AUUUUGH I'M PLOTTING.

*does a happy dance*

So I realize I'm so late to the party that it's over, but I thought I'd put my two cents in anyway.

You could totally make this work. Two ways which I think could work of the top of my head are just making this a sequel and lots of people would read it anyway (you could also link a mini summary of Garou if you wanted).

Option two: you just jump into the story with the relationship you want. You can then add a bit of back story as the story goes (like they do in a lot of novels). You could change some of the facts from Garou to better fit the new story if you wanted.

Either way, this story is really really really appealing to me and I hope you write it!

I to hope you write this story, it looks a lot better then most story ideas I here about and it would be a real shame if this one was never written. Just point the readers at Garou as was mentioned earlier and say that this is based of the same idea. because this idea is really to cool for me not try to encourage you to write it now that I had it pointed out to me.

I've been writing it for nanowrimo, actually ^__^ but as original fiction, though right now people who know gundam wing can tell it's the GW characters even though Wufei and Trowa are suddenly girls. I'll rewrite it more later to make the characters more coherent... Anyway it's here if you wanna see it:

http://askerian.livejournal.com/tag/roarr+nanothing (there's also babbling posts, it's not just the story itself)

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