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naruto manga - pairings talk
So I was thinking, and bad things tend to happen when I do. >__>;;
Sakura must be the most lopsidedly emotionally stunted girl ever.
Part 1: loves Sasuke in a shallow, fangirly way => learns to know who he really is deep down (ie a broken, hurt, scared boy) and really understands him => loves him anyway but in a deep, desperate way. (note: is 13 year old. That shows some emotional maturity. At that age I was still wondering why it made me so happy to spend the night copying song lyrics by hand for some girl in my class who never talked to me much, just because I hoped she'd give me one of her super-nice smiles. Dunno about you guys. >__>)
Part 2: spends two years and then some training to get back some guy, obsessed by the idea of getting him back, crying over the team picture at night, being crushed when some random nin (yay Karui) mentions him and how he might have changed, and yet despite all that thinking she does on the topic of Uchiha Sasuke and how much it hurts to think he might not be the boy she remembers, doesn't notice her romantic feelings for him have been fading and/or turning into something purely sisterly.
Meanwhile there's some leeway to interpret scenes as implying that she's been falling for Naruto for the last year. Okay, that kind of feeling can indeed sneak upon someone...
Sai: "Naruto loves you. Everything he does, he does it for you. You hurt him SO BAD."
Sakura: *crushed look of shock and horror*
Let's all agree to say it came as a bit of a surprise to her? At least the depth of it -- I think she's not so retarded as to completely miss the "Is this a date??!"s. >_>;;;
Her reaction to it seems to lack some "omg and here I was, suffering in silence on my side because I thought he wasn't serious about his feelings! But it's mutual!! :D Oh, I just have to tell him so, and then, well, okay, he might be a bit bummed because he was so completely sold on the idea of me and Sasuke but I can still want Sasuke as a teammate while being in love with someone else, damn it, it's not like Sasuke ever said he might love me back anyway, team seven will be fine" ... there's only shock, guilt and grief. Where's the revelation, the guilty happiness?
It's more of a "Oh god. I did that to him? Oh god. I didn't know -- I should have seen it, oh god, I never meant to hurt him like that, is this my fault?" It could progress to "it really hurts me to hurt Naruto... I can't stand to see him hurt... because... oh. I think -- I think I love him." It could also progress to "we're friends and I never meant to lead him on, I feel so sorry for him, what do I do to fix that?" Both interpretation are, at this point, equally valid.
But let's discard the "Sakura was aware of her romantic feelings for Naruto before that point" interpretation. It's just been proved invalid.
Not that it wasn't hinted at before that point that she just wasn't looking at Naruto that way. For her, Naruto isn't a handsome young man -- he's Naruto.
¤ She didn't notice when Naruto was blurting out his "date plz?" that he was serious about it. Okay, Naruto wasn't asking in a serious manner and never seemed bummed when it didn't pan out. The way she rejected it offhand was still a hint that she wasn't making the "Naruto + romance?" connection, or so fast that she barely had the time to think "naruto+romancHAHAHAHANO. Oh hey a butterfly."
¤ She's devastated at the thought of being useless, and then Yamato "speaks her thoughts", she just has to fill in the blanks! "Sakura, in reality you..."
The gist of the discussion :
Sakura: Naruto, stop torturing yourself, I'll save Sasuke on my own!
Kyuubi: *DENIED*
Naruto: *burninated horribly*
Sakura: *heal heal T^T* ... this is not enough. He's doing so much. I wish I could do something to help him. ...Can I learn to control Kyuubi?
Yamato: Nope, sorry.
Sakura: T^T but just healing isn't doing enough for him.
Yamato: What you DO isn't what matter the most to him...
*Interpretation n°1: What matters is that you even WANT to help him / care enough to want to help. Your intentions matter more in making him feel understood and supported than your acts.
*Interpretation n°2: What matters is that you're in love with him.
Either one works. Apparently, her O_O face wasn't one of revelation but one of FINISH YOUR SENTENCE. WHAT? because the fallout? We would have seen it at some point. It was over 150 chapters ago and Sakura didn't give it a second thought. Obviously while she might have made the "care?" connection she didn't make the "romance?" connection.
¤ She has been aware of Hinata's feelings all along -- granted, back when she hinted at Naruto "Hinata watches you all the time" during the chuunin tournament, she wasn't interested in Naruto at ALL, and in the meantime maybe she forgot.
(Then she got to see Hinata go OMG NARUTO D: for Naruto being kicked into a freakin' pond, but once again, she forgot.)
But then she gets a MAJOR reminder that Hinata loves Naruto in the form of Hinata's self-sacrifice -- both that "Naruto = serious romantic partner" is actually a possible equation, and that someone else has just made a move! She should have switched from "teammate-friend-brother Naruto as someone's romantic partner?" to "Naruto as MY romantic partner?" right there. Instead, even then she STILL had no clue, no trigger, no realization.
Hinata got several pages for her declaration and sacrifice, yet for such a major realization as Sakura finally noticing who she really loves (which should warrant some attention because it not only affects Naruto and Sakura's subplot, but also Hinata's character development) we get *one* small panel of Sakura looking sad? Not surprised, not torn -- just sad? And there could be no reason for Sakura to be sad than her being jealous, when Hinata lay there bleeding and half dead after such a desperate act? But her only thought was "Hinata, for Naruto you..." which was about HINATA's motive -- whereas if she were jealous she should probably have started worrying that Naruto might love Hinata back. Sakura didn't get even one thought about Naruto's side of things.
She wasn't jealous over Hinata's confession. Sad, yes? Disappointed in her for taking the risk? Understanding because she'd done the same before? Who knows. But the jealousy is subtext at best; it's never expressed. For such a major plot point?
¤ Then Naruto almost dies, and goes eight tails, and she's seen four tails up close and personal so of course she probably freaks! And then Naruto comes back alive, and OMG the relief, and the hug!
The hug.
Her body didn't lean into his as if her spine had melted, with her arms as far around him as they would go. She just hugged around his neck with her forearms, standing straight, her face looking straight onward instead of turned even slightly into his neck. That body language = platonic. Compare to her tackling Sasuke in the hospital, or in the forest of death, or against Haku and Zabuza.
The hug happened in public and yet no one saw anything embarrassing about it -- Japanese people are very much O_o on public shows of affection. Even if they all approved their new hero getting booty, at least someone would have whistled or something; no one seemed to find it shocking or kind of daring at all. Hinata, a Hyuuga (skilled at reading body language!), seemed to see nothing shocking about it either. One tiny smiling panel was apparently enough to convey that her character arc, which has been developing from her appearance to culminate into her declaration... was over, just like that, with not even the need to have a "no thanks" talk with Naruto -- just a tiny smiling panel somehow meaning "and the end of my character arc is that I understand and accept the implicit "no thanks" with no sadness whatsoever and I'm happy to see you in the arms of the woman you love, and I am not surprised at all at seeing that she loves you back because I knew it all along despite never being shown to be aware of having a rival before." It packs a lot, for such a small panel, doesn't it. >__>;; Sakura is now aware of Hinata's feelings -- is she enough of a bitch to go and hug Naruto with deliberate romantic intent under her nose when the girl just almost died for him? Maybe the hug really was just... gratefulness. Relief.
One page later, that great show-don't-tell wordless declaration of love was forgotten as Naruto and Sakura go about their business with zero self-consciousness or fluttery feelings or... anything.
That hug proved that Sakura was finally acknowledging in public that she admired and respected Naruto, and that she cared for his wellbeing... but even so she STILL did not make the "I'm so relieved he's alive... = I LOVE HIM?" math.
So...
Naruto hits on her sometimes out of the blue. She doesn't react in a romantic way, not even in a "that idiot, I wish he were serious" way -- she just rebuffs him and forgets about it.
She gets a chance to hand-feed broken-arm'd Naruto -- and Sai and Kakashi steal her chance, and she absolutely does not mind.
Yamato almost tells her (or so people say), she doesn't realize his meaning and never thinks about it again.
Hinata shows her that Naruto can SO make a good boyfriend, she doesn't notice that he could make a good boyfriend for HER.
Hinata threatens to take Naruto away, Sakura doesn't seem to mind.
And then Sai goes and point blank tells her... and she's utterly stunned.
"He loves you!"
Her first reaction? "Oh my god I'm so sorry ;___;" Her second? A vaguely resigned "I have to go talk to him."
I'm still waiting for the dawning "... me too. o_o"
If she's in love with him now then she shows less maturity and self-awareness with this at 16 than about Sasuke at 12, when she was still a shallow fangirl! It's not Kishimoto milking it for suspense purposes, it's just plain retarded. Well, YES, she could have developing feelings -- in between the panels that were actually there! There were DOZENS of occasions to put in some #o.o# moments without actually advancing the situation between the two of them if he really needed to drag it on until some big plot twist, something that would have shown us that her feelings were turning romantic even though she didn't notice. Instead Kishimoto always ruined it somehow. (having Yamato catching her as she fell, having Sakura fail to be embarrassed at being caught feeding Naruto ramen and "ahah ^^;;;;" in the last panel with Kakashi feeding Naruto instead of completely cut out of the moment, proving the joke had been all on Naruto and none on her... actually showing some jealousy when Hinata went OMG NARUTO INNA POND -- no, sorry, one tiny placement shot of "watch the enemy and stop worrying about him" with zero emphasis on her expression wasn't it...)
If Sakura really loves Naruto, then I don't know what happened during her training. Maybe Tsunade went on a brain surgery trip or something. Because there's a major problem with how apparently she can't tell her own feelings even when 1) he almost dies omgnoes!! 2) he behaves AWESOMELY and in a hot mature hero way, 3) someone threatens to steal him away and 4) SEVERAL PEOPLE BEAT HER OVER THE HEAD WITH IT.
Somehow I just can't convince myself this little trip is going to end in an easy, heart-warming "Naruto, I love you too" the second she sees him again. She's always been depicted as a self-aware, emotionally mature, romance-centered person. Her feelings have got to be underneath several underneaths for her to have missed them for so long.
Oh, NaruSaku might still develop from there, I'm not saying it absolutely can't -- but she would have to to start falling for Naruto NOW. Because right now... she isn't.
She has a good, solid base for it -- she loves him as a friend, and depends on him, and respects him, and admires him, and cares for him and his wellbeing a hell of a lot, and they have fun together. Building a deep love on it could work fine once they had no prior entanglements to get out of the way. But the romantic angle? It's just plain not here yet. She shows no special body language, no blushes, she doesn't confide in him on her feelings of uselessness or her other worries -- he doesn't confide in her on his own issues (peace VS revenge, the big issue? not a mention to her, he takes it all upon his shoulders. Mourning Jiraiya? Same. Etcetera.), they never have a serious talk where they drop their masks and allow each other to see their insecurities -- not any that doesn't revolve around Sasuke in some way. Maybe it will stop after they have the "btw Sai told me something interesting!" talk! Maybe, or maybe not.
Then again, seeing how Naruto is only shown to be serious about his feelings when he's talking about having given up on declaring himself to her (that's three times in 400 chapters or thereabouts), and supporting her own feelings for his best friend, it's pretty obvious he can prrrobably survive it if she tells him "you're my bestest best friend forever, you're strong, I acknowledge you, you're one of my most important people. Now let's save Sasuke together." I have a feeling he kind of, you know, saw it coming, he'd be more happy for them than bummed for himself (though still probably a little bummed, I mean, that's human), and it's not like romance was ever one of his big life goals anyway.
He wanted people's respect and acknowledgement. He already has hers, and she recently proved it in public. That's bad how?
The way all the characters have been written, the themes, the body langage, the manga shortcuts and social context -- I've been pretty sure it wasn't going to happen for a while now. Sakura just doesn't love him romantically. And after 400 chapters, it's going to come off as a bit of a surprise if she just starts to now. She's had so many triggers for it already.
Also there is WAY too much Sasuke in this twosome. What would they talk about on their dates? How well his rehabilitation is coming? How much it proves they're on the same wavelength of soulmatey love when they both slip up and cry out Sasuke's name in the throes of passion? ohyesplz.
But hey, if I read the manga wrong we'll know it pretty soon and you'll all get to laugh at me.
But then I'll seriously wonder when Sakura got her lobotomy.
Sakura must be the most lopsidedly emotionally stunted girl ever.
Part 1: loves Sasuke in a shallow, fangirly way => learns to know who he really is deep down (ie a broken, hurt, scared boy) and really understands him => loves him anyway but in a deep, desperate way. (note: is 13 year old. That shows some emotional maturity. At that age I was still wondering why it made me so happy to spend the night copying song lyrics by hand for some girl in my class who never talked to me much, just because I hoped she'd give me one of her super-nice smiles. Dunno about you guys. >__>)
Part 2: spends two years and then some training to get back some guy, obsessed by the idea of getting him back, crying over the team picture at night, being crushed when some random nin (yay Karui) mentions him and how he might have changed, and yet despite all that thinking she does on the topic of Uchiha Sasuke and how much it hurts to think he might not be the boy she remembers, doesn't notice her romantic feelings for him have been fading and/or turning into something purely sisterly.
Meanwhile there's some leeway to interpret scenes as implying that she's been falling for Naruto for the last year. Okay, that kind of feeling can indeed sneak upon someone...
Sai: "Naruto loves you. Everything he does, he does it for you. You hurt him SO BAD."
Sakura: *crushed look of shock and horror*
Let's all agree to say it came as a bit of a surprise to her? At least the depth of it -- I think she's not so retarded as to completely miss the "Is this a date??!"s. >_>;;;
Her reaction to it seems to lack some "omg and here I was, suffering in silence on my side because I thought he wasn't serious about his feelings! But it's mutual!! :D Oh, I just have to tell him so, and then, well, okay, he might be a bit bummed because he was so completely sold on the idea of me and Sasuke but I can still want Sasuke as a teammate while being in love with someone else, damn it, it's not like Sasuke ever said he might love me back anyway, team seven will be fine" ... there's only shock, guilt and grief. Where's the revelation, the guilty happiness?
It's more of a "Oh god. I did that to him? Oh god. I didn't know -- I should have seen it, oh god, I never meant to hurt him like that, is this my fault?" It could progress to "it really hurts me to hurt Naruto... I can't stand to see him hurt... because... oh. I think -- I think I love him." It could also progress to "we're friends and I never meant to lead him on, I feel so sorry for him, what do I do to fix that?" Both interpretation are, at this point, equally valid.
But let's discard the "Sakura was aware of her romantic feelings for Naruto before that point" interpretation. It's just been proved invalid.
Not that it wasn't hinted at before that point that she just wasn't looking at Naruto that way. For her, Naruto isn't a handsome young man -- he's Naruto.
¤ She didn't notice when Naruto was blurting out his "date plz?" that he was serious about it. Okay, Naruto wasn't asking in a serious manner and never seemed bummed when it didn't pan out. The way she rejected it offhand was still a hint that she wasn't making the "Naruto + romance?" connection, or so fast that she barely had the time to think "naruto+romancHAHAHAHANO. Oh hey a butterfly."
¤ She's devastated at the thought of being useless, and then Yamato "speaks her thoughts", she just has to fill in the blanks! "Sakura, in reality you..."
The gist of the discussion :
Sakura: Naruto, stop torturing yourself, I'll save Sasuke on my own!
Kyuubi: *DENIED*
Naruto: *burninated horribly*
Sakura: *heal heal T^T* ... this is not enough. He's doing so much. I wish I could do something to help him. ...Can I learn to control Kyuubi?
Yamato: Nope, sorry.
Sakura: T^T but just healing isn't doing enough for him.
Yamato: What you DO isn't what matter the most to him...
*Interpretation n°1: What matters is that you even WANT to help him / care enough to want to help. Your intentions matter more in making him feel understood and supported than your acts.
*Interpretation n°2: What matters is that you're in love with him.
Either one works. Apparently, her O_O face wasn't one of revelation but one of FINISH YOUR SENTENCE. WHAT? because the fallout? We would have seen it at some point. It was over 150 chapters ago and Sakura didn't give it a second thought. Obviously while she might have made the "care?" connection she didn't make the "romance?" connection.
¤ She has been aware of Hinata's feelings all along -- granted, back when she hinted at Naruto "Hinata watches you all the time" during the chuunin tournament, she wasn't interested in Naruto at ALL, and in the meantime maybe she forgot.
(Then she got to see Hinata go OMG NARUTO D: for Naruto being kicked into a freakin' pond, but once again, she forgot.)
But then she gets a MAJOR reminder that Hinata loves Naruto in the form of Hinata's self-sacrifice -- both that "Naruto = serious romantic partner" is actually a possible equation, and that someone else has just made a move! She should have switched from "teammate-friend-brother Naruto as someone's romantic partner?" to "Naruto as MY romantic partner?" right there. Instead, even then she STILL had no clue, no trigger, no realization.
Hinata got several pages for her declaration and sacrifice, yet for such a major realization as Sakura finally noticing who she really loves (which should warrant some attention because it not only affects Naruto and Sakura's subplot, but also Hinata's character development) we get *one* small panel of Sakura looking sad? Not surprised, not torn -- just sad? And there could be no reason for Sakura to be sad than her being jealous, when Hinata lay there bleeding and half dead after such a desperate act? But her only thought was "Hinata, for Naruto you..." which was about HINATA's motive -- whereas if she were jealous she should probably have started worrying that Naruto might love Hinata back. Sakura didn't get even one thought about Naruto's side of things.
She wasn't jealous over Hinata's confession. Sad, yes? Disappointed in her for taking the risk? Understanding because she'd done the same before? Who knows. But the jealousy is subtext at best; it's never expressed. For such a major plot point?
¤ Then Naruto almost dies, and goes eight tails, and she's seen four tails up close and personal so of course she probably freaks! And then Naruto comes back alive, and OMG the relief, and the hug!
The hug.
Her body didn't lean into his as if her spine had melted, with her arms as far around him as they would go. She just hugged around his neck with her forearms, standing straight, her face looking straight onward instead of turned even slightly into his neck. That body language = platonic. Compare to her tackling Sasuke in the hospital, or in the forest of death, or against Haku and Zabuza.
The hug happened in public and yet no one saw anything embarrassing about it -- Japanese people are very much O_o on public shows of affection. Even if they all approved their new hero getting booty, at least someone would have whistled or something; no one seemed to find it shocking or kind of daring at all. Hinata, a Hyuuga (skilled at reading body language!), seemed to see nothing shocking about it either. One tiny smiling panel was apparently enough to convey that her character arc, which has been developing from her appearance to culminate into her declaration... was over, just like that, with not even the need to have a "no thanks" talk with Naruto -- just a tiny smiling panel somehow meaning "and the end of my character arc is that I understand and accept the implicit "no thanks" with no sadness whatsoever and I'm happy to see you in the arms of the woman you love, and I am not surprised at all at seeing that she loves you back because I knew it all along despite never being shown to be aware of having a rival before." It packs a lot, for such a small panel, doesn't it. >__>;; Sakura is now aware of Hinata's feelings -- is she enough of a bitch to go and hug Naruto with deliberate romantic intent under her nose when the girl just almost died for him? Maybe the hug really was just... gratefulness. Relief.
One page later, that great show-don't-tell wordless declaration of love was forgotten as Naruto and Sakura go about their business with zero self-consciousness or fluttery feelings or... anything.
That hug proved that Sakura was finally acknowledging in public that she admired and respected Naruto, and that she cared for his wellbeing... but even so she STILL did not make the "I'm so relieved he's alive... = I LOVE HIM?" math.
So...
Naruto hits on her sometimes out of the blue. She doesn't react in a romantic way, not even in a "that idiot, I wish he were serious" way -- she just rebuffs him and forgets about it.
She gets a chance to hand-feed broken-arm'd Naruto -- and Sai and Kakashi steal her chance, and she absolutely does not mind.
Yamato almost tells her (or so people say), she doesn't realize his meaning and never thinks about it again.
Hinata shows her that Naruto can SO make a good boyfriend, she doesn't notice that he could make a good boyfriend for HER.
Hinata threatens to take Naruto away, Sakura doesn't seem to mind.
And then Sai goes and point blank tells her... and she's utterly stunned.
"He loves you!"
Her first reaction? "Oh my god I'm so sorry ;___;" Her second? A vaguely resigned "I have to go talk to him."
I'm still waiting for the dawning "... me too. o_o"
If she's in love with him now then she shows less maturity and self-awareness with this at 16 than about Sasuke at 12, when she was still a shallow fangirl! It's not Kishimoto milking it for suspense purposes, it's just plain retarded. Well, YES, she could have developing feelings -- in between the panels that were actually there! There were DOZENS of occasions to put in some #o.o# moments without actually advancing the situation between the two of them if he really needed to drag it on until some big plot twist, something that would have shown us that her feelings were turning romantic even though she didn't notice. Instead Kishimoto always ruined it somehow. (having Yamato catching her as she fell, having Sakura fail to be embarrassed at being caught feeding Naruto ramen and "ahah ^^;;;;" in the last panel with Kakashi feeding Naruto instead of completely cut out of the moment, proving the joke had been all on Naruto and none on her... actually showing some jealousy when Hinata went OMG NARUTO INNA POND -- no, sorry, one tiny placement shot of "watch the enemy and stop worrying about him" with zero emphasis on her expression wasn't it...)
If Sakura really loves Naruto, then I don't know what happened during her training. Maybe Tsunade went on a brain surgery trip or something. Because there's a major problem with how apparently she can't tell her own feelings even when 1) he almost dies omgnoes!! 2) he behaves AWESOMELY and in a hot mature hero way, 3) someone threatens to steal him away and 4) SEVERAL PEOPLE BEAT HER OVER THE HEAD WITH IT.
Somehow I just can't convince myself this little trip is going to end in an easy, heart-warming "Naruto, I love you too" the second she sees him again. She's always been depicted as a self-aware, emotionally mature, romance-centered person. Her feelings have got to be underneath several underneaths for her to have missed them for so long.
Oh, NaruSaku might still develop from there, I'm not saying it absolutely can't -- but she would have to to start falling for Naruto NOW. Because right now... she isn't.
She has a good, solid base for it -- she loves him as a friend, and depends on him, and respects him, and admires him, and cares for him and his wellbeing a hell of a lot, and they have fun together. Building a deep love on it could work fine once they had no prior entanglements to get out of the way. But the romantic angle? It's just plain not here yet. She shows no special body language, no blushes, she doesn't confide in him on her feelings of uselessness or her other worries -- he doesn't confide in her on his own issues (peace VS revenge, the big issue? not a mention to her, he takes it all upon his shoulders. Mourning Jiraiya? Same. Etcetera.), they never have a serious talk where they drop their masks and allow each other to see their insecurities -- not any that doesn't revolve around Sasuke in some way. Maybe it will stop after they have the "btw Sai told me something interesting!" talk! Maybe, or maybe not.
Then again, seeing how Naruto is only shown to be serious about his feelings when he's talking about having given up on declaring himself to her (that's three times in 400 chapters or thereabouts), and supporting her own feelings for his best friend, it's pretty obvious he can prrrobably survive it if she tells him "you're my bestest best friend forever, you're strong, I acknowledge you, you're one of my most important people. Now let's save Sasuke together." I have a feeling he kind of, you know, saw it coming, he'd be more happy for them than bummed for himself (though still probably a little bummed, I mean, that's human), and it's not like romance was ever one of his big life goals anyway.
He wanted people's respect and acknowledgement. He already has hers, and she recently proved it in public. That's bad how?
The way all the characters have been written, the themes, the body langage, the manga shortcuts and social context -- I've been pretty sure it wasn't going to happen for a while now. Sakura just doesn't love him romantically. And after 400 chapters, it's going to come off as a bit of a surprise if she just starts to now. She's had so many triggers for it already.
Also there is WAY too much Sasuke in this twosome. What would they talk about on their dates? How well his rehabilitation is coming? How much it proves they're on the same wavelength of soulmatey love when they both slip up and cry out Sasuke's name in the throes of passion? ohyesplz.
But hey, if I read the manga wrong we'll know it pretty soon and you'll all get to laugh at me.
But then I'll seriously wonder when Sakura got her lobotomy.