fandom rage

[askerian]

... which actually is more of a grumpy ramble, because I had to go water my brother's plants seeing as he's out of town and then it rained on me and that made me happy, yay summer storms.

But it's still a concept I've been seeing A LOT in the latest weeks and it never fails to utterly piss me off.



Sakura is a bitch for not jumping ship to Naruto.

By which I don't mean that she cannot realize she loves Naruto back. No, jumping ship was pretty much what I meant. As in, rats and sinking ship, though it also doubles as the shipper sense pretty nicely, so I can look like I meant to do a super original and clever pun..

So. Sakura data.

-She loves Sasuke, or at least believes she did and hasn't yet fully realized she has been deluding herself for the last three years. She might be starting to, though.
-Sasuke acting like a raging dickweed hurts her a lot. She might or might not be starting to wonder if maybe they can't bring him back at all.
-Sasuke being targeted by everyone on the map and a few more countries Kishi created for the occasion scares and worries the hell out of her.
-Naruto left without her, despite their "next time we'll do it together" promise.
-Her master is in a persistent coma and her place was usurped by a guy who sees Sasuke as an enemy and Naruto as a disobedient weapon.
-Her whole city is gone.
-OH HEY DID YOU KNOW NARUTO HAS BEEN SUFFERING WITH HIS IMMORTAL LOVE FOR YOU AND THE HUGE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE YOU PUT ON HIM WITH THAT PROMISE, YOU BITCH. YEAH, GUILT HARDER, YOU DESERVE IT.

Somehow her being CONFUSED and LOST and failing to instantly go "oh okay Sai you're right, I'll give up on Sasuke and realize I love Naruto right here on the spot and resolve to go after him to tell him I love him back!" is proof that she's a selfish cunt who failed to reward his amazing selflessness, and doesn't she know that he DESERVES some pussy after all he's done for her?

Because of COURSE she totally knew he forever!loved her all along, I mean he only hit on her in a light-hearted way and never seemed to give it a second thought when she rejected him, she should have GUESSED it was ~so much more~ than a crush.

Because all he did for her, he would NEVER have done just because he was a good person, or just because they were friends and teammates, or JUST BECAUSE HE ALSO WANTED SASUKE BACK AND WOULD HAVE GONE AFTER HIM EVEN WITHOUT THE PROMISE. Noo, she should have known the joking around and the supporting each other about their common goal were all OUT OF EXPECTING TO BE PAID BACK WITH HER HEART AND PUSSY.

And now by refusing to give it, she's cheating him out of his expected reward for all that hard work he put into wooing her and protecting her and encouraging her. Like what, she thought it was for free? She thought her encouraging him and healing him counted for jack shit into keeping the tabs balanced? He wants PUSSY, damn you, you stupid whore.

Way to make the touching, romantic way Naruto tried to shut away all his serious expectations that he would ever be loved back and keeping on loving her quietly without pressuring her about it into a disgusting case of Nice Guy (tm).

Sakura is going to go and do something about her feelings now. She's going to 1) see Sasuke again, so she can reaffirm or end her feelings for him, and 2) decide whether what she feels in return for Naruto's feelings is love or just gratitude and friendship. But she's not going to shack up with Naruto just because Sai guilt-tripped her when she was already feeling depressed and useless. That would be disgusting.

Stop fucking making Naruto into a fucking Nice Guy. Stop making Sakura into a bitch and a whore who yet somehow isn't loose ENOUGH because she doesn't dump her own feelings without even exploring them first just because Naruto's feelings are the only thing that counts. I will smack a whole brothel-full of bitch.





And more ramblings...

There's something about Sai -- He Doesn't Get It. He doesn't get their feelings about Sasuke, either Naruto's or Sakura's. He's not the Authorial Intent showing through -- he's the voice of all those outsiders who go "but why do you even still care? He hurts you." Who goes "You burdened Naruto with that promise you asked out of him." Never mind that Naruto would have done the same thing even if she hadn't asked, never mind that Sakura then went on to train like hell and more or less take back that selfish intent with "Next time we'll go together". Sai only knows that there was a promise that Naruto still remembers, and he automatically assumes that if Sakura took the "bring Sasuke back!" promise back then Naruto would give up on him, they'd shack up, and everyone would be happy without the asshole. Fuck no! Naruto would feel ABANDONED if Sakura gave up on that thing now, after all he's been sacrificing (his master, his right to revenge on Pain, his pride face to the Raikage...) She's the only one who still gets it! He wouldn't be happy.

Sai's not one of them; he doesn't get it. And like Naruto said very recently, just because a bond hurts is not a reason to cut it. Of course bonds hurt sometimes. And then you heal them. You don't just give up. So why would Sai totally miss the core of the Naruto/Sasuke bond and yet understand the Sakura/Sasuke part, or even the Sakura => Naruto? He's still reasoning from a "If I were in Sasuke's place I wouldn't", "Naruto-kun is awesome!~ ♥" point of view. He's not supposed to be right; he's the outsider who questions and prods so that the main characters can answer him.

That's the same reason Naruto has started to realize Sasuke has changed and maybe he doesn't know him anymore. Compared to all the promises and references Naruto made to bringing Sasuke back and stacking his dream of being Hokage on it, a little moment of doubt doesn't weigh much, but the commitment has been tested by enemies; now it is reaching a point where it must be tested by people closer to home, both from without (Sai and the Konoha genin) and from within -- Naruto himself, and probably also Sakura.

But after coming so far, the commitment to bring Sasuke back home will only come out stronger. What kind of message would that be, otherwise? Give up on your dreams when you're halfway there, no matter how many obstacles you've already gone through for them, it was useless from the start anyway? Oh yeah, that's such a Shounen motto. 9___9

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And in other news I'm leaving tomorrow for a week of vacation in Menton, that last little town on the Mediterranean before France turns into Italy. It's such a beautiful place. *__* (but man, a week with no internet and no books. I'll die. DX)

Comments

[gladdecease]

Yes. All of this, so much. I can see a bit of parallel to the Sakura->Naruto in the Naruto->Hinata as well, in being faced with the feelings and not knowing how (or maybe not wanting right now) to deal with it. Both situations could go either way, but they aren't immediate concerns.

I think Sai still expects relationships to follow what he reads in his books. And those are much more simplified than what Team 7 has, which I think some fans don't understand either. They expect people to love people that are good for them, or there for them, when feelings are never that convenient or transient.

Another thing: I was surprised at Ino's reaction, though looking back I don't think I should have been. Was it just fanon that her feelings for Sasuke were somehow less than Sakura's, or less sincere, or that she gave them up when he left the village? It's been so long since they had any interaction, or Ino was involved in a conversation about Sasuke.

(frozen comment)

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

Not fanon, but common sense. True, Sakura too has not talked to Sasuke for several years, but at least when he was still in Konoha they had some serious conversations, and Sakura got to learn to know his personality. Ino only swooned for him from far away (and molested him.)

But Kishimoto looks at love with the eyes of a twelve-year-old.

And, honestly, when I look at Ino, I imagine her to be the kind of girl who has a different boyfriend every six weeks, flirting extensely, trying what happens, and dumping boys with little care, but also being dumped without much consideration. It came to me as a real surprise when I saw her crying.

[sadieko.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[askerian]

♥

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

I think that Sakura will go to tell Naruto about the other former genins' plans, and warn him. Sai will go with her, and together they will try to prevent the genin against killing Danzou. Kakashi will support them - they know that they are all going to be missing-nin for this, but also he knows that he does not want the "Nine-Tail" to be guided by Danzou.

Well. That's what I hope. I hope they go to search for Killerbee, because Killerbee alive and happy (with his first contract for an album) will make the Raikage forgive Sasuke.

[askerian]

Oh man I HOPE SO TOO. *crosses fingers* ;___;

[aishuu.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm reading the same manga as everyone, because I don't interpret things the same way they do? To me, it looks like Sakura is finally realizing Naruto's importance to her, and may be ready to come to love him? Not that I advocate Naru/Saku in canon.... I'm not really a huge shipper.

Sakura bashing is just... no. As for Sai, well... the arc makes me realize how far Sai has come. In some ways, it's an inversion of the Naruto and Sasuke relationship - Naruto is Sai's most important person, but Naruto is fixated on finding Sasuke. It's kind a of rewrite of Naruto, Sasuke and Itachi's original roles.

[askerian]

Well, if she is realizing his importance, I think acknowledging that he saved the whole village with her hug and "thank you" was already doing that. She more or less told him he wasn't baka naruto the loser teammate anymore in her eyes at that point. It might open the field for deeper things to start blooming, yeah. (or it might still stay a platonic kind of admiration. Who knows. Man, Kishi, hurry up. XD)


Ohh, I hadn't thought of the parallels with the itasasunaru situation. Shiny. Poor Sai, he just wants to be one of Naruto's most important persons, but he's got to feel taken for granted and underappreciated when Naruto is so fixated on someone who doesn't even want him back. XD *rolls in jealousy*

[sowell.livejournal.com]

&hearts&hearts&hearts

So much yes to the Sakura part. All of it really, but especially the first part. Honestly, I'm mostly annoyed with Kishimoto for setting the Naru/Saku up this way. Because no matter what happens from this point, I'm afraid that if she gets with Naruto it will look like she did it because Nice Guy (tm) Naruto has earned her and not because she has sorted it out her own feelings and made a decision.

But mainly I want to punch Sai and Shikamaru in the face for shaming her in the last couple chapters, and I'm annoyed at all the people cheering Sai on for confronting her about it. Because no. For all the reasons you said, no. Ugh.

Note: if this leads to a gigantic Team 7 battle/reunion/orgy/whathaveyou I will instantly forgive all parties involved.

[askerian]

yyyyyeah, my god, I'll like the narusaku well enough if Sakura gets with him of her own will and decision (so long as sasuke is happy!! DX *card carrying sasuke'tard*) but if Kishi doesn't fix that crying!confused!berated by other people into giving in because she can't figure out her own feelings herself!Sakura I will bite people. preferably Kishi and his assistants.

Sai... well. i'm telling myself he just really doesn't get feelings -- no actually i'm telling myself he's acting like a bitch because deep down he wishes naruto were in love with HIM. Yes. XD I mean, it's okay for sai, who is new to feelings and to caring and etcetera, to make the situation worse for Sakura without even knowing all the details. But it's really fucking aggravating to have fandom people thinking what he's doing is righteous and justified.

Note: if this leads to a gigantic Team 7 battle/reunion/orgy/whathaveyou I will instantly forgive all parties involved.
... I like the way you think. *___*

[chibirisuchan.livejournal.com]

I am having serious problems with the notion of "men's god-given entitlement to the pussy of their choice" right now, given the psycho bastard who shot up a health club full of women because he couldn't get laid and there are a whole lot of men out there who are cheering him on. (http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2009/08/06/mens-rights-activists-anti-feminists-and-other-misogynists-comment-on-george-sodini/)

I wonder how many of said Naruto fans even see the parallels in what they're saying, let alone recognize that it is the same kind of "women's bodies as expected rewards for male behavior" thinking that has been used to defend serial killing.

*headdesk*

[snowdevil-crow.livejournal.com]

THAT. FUCKING. PISSED ME OFF.

What the FUCK was wrong with that person? And the comments - that - Oh, he couldn't get laid so he SHOT UP A BUNCH OF WOMEN TO, I dunno, fucking, TEACH THEM A LESSON???

What is this shit?

[mikkeneko.livejournal.com]

Why... why do I read the comments? I know not to read the comments. ;_;

[freed-wings.livejournal.com]

Me too! I've been thinking about all those media images of ugly men falling in love with beautiful women, and then the women being painted as bitches for not returning their affections. Think: the new futureshot video on youtube, Dunny.

[quoth-the-ravyn.livejournal.com]

AMen. Just... amen.

[phantomshade]

THANK YOU. JUST THANK YOU. You are one of the few people I know who isn't all for Sai's random guilting of Sakura. I actually wanted to smack Sai and Kishi for that.

It is pretty much canon that Sai DOES NOT UNDERSTAND COMPLEX EMOTIONS. And the most complex emotions out there? Hate and love. Trust me, as a heteromantic asexual, LOVE IS COMPLEX SHIT. There are so many levels of it, so many ways to express it, and it can shift from one level to another. Yes, Naruto loves Sakura. He also loves Sasuke. And Iruka. And Kakashi. And Jiraya, Tsunade, Shizune, Team 8, Team 10, Team Gai, the jounin senseis, Konohamaru and his friends, Teuchi and Ayame, Sai, the Sandsibs, and THE ENTIRETY OF KONOHA. And I don't think Sai can truely understand that yet. Both he and Sasuke are emotionally and socailly messed up, and the idea that Sai is capable of giving nonbaised relationship advice (or, sadly, that Sasuke is capable of being brought back by anything short of someone pinning him down and beating him upside the head with the Two-By-Four Of Emotional Epiphanines™) is misguided.

On another topic, enjoy your vacation! Trust me, some time away from the internets can do a person good. But no books seems excessively cruel to me *is a bibliophile*

(frozen comment)

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

that Sasuke is capable of being brought back by anything short of someone pinning him down and beating him upside the head with the Two-By-Four Of Emotional Epiphanines

Oh, well, another person who is into Black Pedagogics.

What I find most strange in your answer is that you call all those who will disagree with you "misguided". I think you should do some reading in modern pedagogics and psychology, where you will learn that beating someone up and forcing someone to do this or that and most of all using violence is always wrong, and won't teach anyone anything.

Or wait - maybe you are even correct. You cannot bring Sasuke back to Konoha without violence. Which means that it would be wrong to bring Sasuke back to Konoha. And, well, contrary to Naruto, we, the readers, know that Sasuke has good reasons not to return to Konoha.

[nothri.livejournal.com]

I think I like the intent behind Sai's message far more than I like the way he presented it. What I mean is- I think its important Sakura knows how Naruto feels and the exact nature of the burdens he's been carrying. In that sense, Sai was right to tell her. On the other hand, he presented this information in the most blunt, hurtful manner he possibly could at a time when everyone is already emotionally overloaded. I think its an unfortunate combination of him not understanding emotion, him BEING emotional even though he doesn't register it, and him having a sense of urgency regarding recent events. I think there is merit in stating that the village should take more responsibility for its own actions and not lean on Naruto. But the biggest problem with this plan is it would require Naruto to willingly STOP shouldering burdens that aren't his own. Considering his number one goal at the moment is finding lasting peace for his dead sensei...yeesh, good luck on that one.

[cheshire-noneko.livejournal.com]

Am I the only who doesn't think Naruto loves Sakura just because Sai says so?

I wholly agree with your "Sai Doesn't Get It", so much that I think he's probably wrong about Naruto loving Sakura. I mean obviously Naruto loves Sakura a lot, but not in the "in love" way. We really haven't seen anything that would prove it; he's not obsessed by her, doesn't act nervous, special or anything round her, doesn't think long and hard about her or what she thinks ...

Ok, if Kishi-san decides to go this way and show us that, yes, Naruto is actually in love with Sakura, I'll go along, but I find that up till now, nothing points really that way.


I'd like to go to Menton some day, but maybe not in summer, it must be awfully hot there ~~ (and for some reason I always mix it up with Mantoue :B)

[askerian]

My personal feeling is that Naruto still has a crush, but that he's been letting his feelings die/been preventing them from growing too strong, because of the hospital scene -- he realized it would be a bad idea. Back then I felt like he was going "okay, her love for sasuke is super serious, and my love for her was taking second place to my rivalry with Sasuke and my quest for a mather figure, and i was pretty childish about it anyway, so... yeah, I'll give up on that." He did the random flirting because he does like her as a person, and does/did have a crush that's probably a comfortable habit by now, and finds her cute, and making out with her would be woohoo SCORE! but I don't think he'd know what to do if she decided to love him back in a serious, marry-me way. I mean, she'd be giving up on Sasuke by doing that and that might be how he reads the situation first, even before the "you love ME?"

The thing, of course, is that this is my personal interpretation, and I have no hard proof for it either way, and i can see where the "Naruto STILL true-loves her and he will FOREVER" camp comes from, even if I didn't get the same ping from any of these scenes at all. So when I make ranting posts like this I try not to bring up arguments that rest only on my gut feelings and that I can't prove with unambiguous manga facts, because it's kinda dickish to the people who do see narusaku happening in the series without being the tin-hat pairing 'tards with disgusting logic I'm bitching about.

I think Naruto still has lingering feelings, but he hasn't given them much thought (we never see him thinking about her when it's not in a team seven memory setting), and he's not seriously, actively pursuing Sakura (he never plans his date requests and never seems upset when he gets rejected off-hand, and he really doesn't keep a close eye on her moods and feelings -- he only notices she's upset when it's about sasuke! DX), so it seems clear if she never loves him back he'll be okay with that. Now that he knows he has her respect and admiration and care, I don't think he really would die of a broken heart if he doesn't get more than that. For a shonen manga, and for Naruto's mindset as well, true friendship and respect are plenty strong enough.


Menton was horribly hot, but then again Lyon is worse. Wahh. T___T

[editrixfox.livejournal.com]

I only scanned all the posts so don't get on my case if I missed something. However, I only wanted to say that I kind of doubt Ino ever really was in love with Sasuke. from my perspective, it seemed like she was more in love with the idea of being in love with Sasuke. I sorta struck me that if you take into consideration Sasuke's more obvious personality flaws, he might seem like a safe sort of love interest. In that case, Ino was smart enough to realize that Sasuke would never return her vague feelings about him, and thus allowed her to admire from a distance, with ever having to worry about getting close to him.

fangirl crushes = never gonna happen so it's ok to crush....

Does that make any sense?

[kat-chan.livejournal.com]

Have fun on the Riviera. Any plans to go to Monaco?

[askerian]

thank you ^^ it was nice. As for monaco we went for a visit last year and it was quite pretty but once you've seen it one time ... well, maybe it's just me, seeing as I don't have either the cash or the interest to want to bother with all those clothes shops. XD

Still, I remember it was very neat. u.u

[armina-skitty.livejournal.com]

I knew this latest chapter was going to stir up a shit storm. So, as soon as I read it, I zipped over here and Volia! One of your beautiful responses. Ah, it's so pretty and full of intelligent insight... Can I join your harem now?

[askerian]

#u.u# you make me blush.

Ufufufufufu. Of course~ *concubine GET*

[garmiet.livejournal.com]

Hey there, just wanted to wish you a Happy Birthday. ♥

[askerian]

n'aww, thank you, hon ^____^

[nekokriszty.livejournal.com]

Oh hell, I didn't realize how much I missed your smart words these past few weeks... I love your comments to the death.

I'm ashamed to admit that I have never thought that Naruto would feel abandoned if Sakura decided NOT to go after Sasuke anymore - but that is too true. And all that Sakura-bashing is just going overboard. Sure, the first time I read the chapter, I thought the same - DUH HE LOVES YOU, DIMWIT!! but I guess that was my dislike of her talking (I just can't make myself like her outside of fan fictions :D). If I just calmly analize the situation, you are more right than I am.

Well. Have a beautiful weekend. Can't wait to read your comments on this upcoming chapter. :)