askerian | cercle -- plotting babble

Current Mood: thoughtful

Entry tags:

cercle -- plotting babble

So I'mma gonna scrap what I planned to do and start again. I figure there's no reason to let Zea hog all the culture shock for her, when I could make the plot more gripping and Ashram more of a real person by having him deal with going from a magical/medieval culture to our modern one. XD

But I need help with police/EMT procedures. I've been researching, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough.

Assuming you're a team in a forest (supposed to keep an eye on teenagers on vacation, so there would be a medic or two, probably, right? and they would have a phone number for the mountain rescue people, or even a radio thinger ... thing) meet a guy (looks to be between 17 and 19), who can't stand up, wobbles, and generally looks pretty severely exhausted. He doesn't speak much of their language. He's also hostile. What happens? What's standard procedure?

I assume they're not cops or even not all trained medics, so one of them might try touching him without thinking; he'll be violent, more or less seriously try to injure them. What happens? Do they try to restrain/drug him? Call Rescue and let them deal with it? (how long would it take for them to get there? They might already have been ready to go because some other kid disappeared during the night.) When he's violent with the Rescue people, what happens?

Then he ends up at the hospital, I guess. Is there going to be a cop in his room? Outside? Is he going to be restrained somehow? Drugged? What happens if he gives them a nonsense name/nickname and he has no ID on him, do they run fingerprints or something? Do they try to figure out which language he's speaking and find a translator, and if so, how? What do they do for the hospital paperwork, do they just call him john doe or something? Or file it with the fake-sounding name he gave?

So he technically hasn't done anything really wrong, except maybe being found in the company of a girl who disappeared from her camping site in the middle of the night (from the scene, the counselor-type-people would probably assume she was trying to meet her secret boyfriend, not being kidnapped and raped -- they're not cops so they might not think to look into that possibility all that much), and he looks/behaves like there's something physically wrong with him (might assume it's drugs or alcohol XD), but he has no papers, won't give a real name, and he's hostile. What's the procedure? That's what I need to know.

edit: OH YEAH I need to know what's the procedure when a suspect is chained to a bed -- like when he's got to use the bathroom (or even just get up and walk around a bit) -- do they just free him and watch the door, is someone going with him? (cop or nurse?) is he totally handcuffs-free or still wearing some or what? How would the police officer behave around him in these situations? I don't want to make it cheap by making him be guarded by an exceptionally unprofessional/lazy/assholistic cop.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My stepdad was an EMT and now works for the Office of Emergency Services, so I know a little bit. Not as much as I should, but I can try and help.

Rape always seems to the first thing on anyone's minds--especially if the woman/man looks like they've been raped. Are they beaten up? Are they covered in dirt or have bruises that would make it look like they've been restrained in some way? Stuff like that. Nobody is innocent anymore is the mindset. Also if she's been missing it's likely they'd have teams out after her as soon as she was unaccounted for.

The counselors would probably have both a landline/satellite phone and a Ham radio system. Often, radio's faster and more reliable.

Finding someone like that, their first priority is to restrain him so he doesn't hurt them or himself. If they have any kind of drugs/tranqulizers on them (they should, if they have to do emergency medical care and the person's thrashing around) they'd probably administer some and have him airlifted via helicopter to the nearest hospital, because who knows what the roads are like?

At the hospital there'd likely be a cop outside his room, and if he's still violent he'd be restrained at the least and probably drugged. They'd label him as John Doe until they have a definite ID match, because if records get screwed up it'd be on their heads and they could be called up for court charges of some kind...I'm not sure what exactly.

That's all I know. Hope it helps.

Ohhhh yes yes yes, thank you, it helps a lot. ♥♥♥♥♥ (I even got some vocabuary out of it! Win. XD)

Hmm, the girl wouldn't look especially afraid of him, I think -- hrrm, wait, I'll have to think on it. She'd be kind of dirty, with dry leaves and branches in her hair and clothes. There's a good possibility she might look nervous, and since he hasn't gotten any for a good long while and he's rude as hell, he would definitely have hit on her or otherwise mentioned he wouldn't mind sexing her up. XD What would happen to her? When would she be questioned, and by who? *ponderponder* Would they treat him very differently if they think he intended to rape her?

.____. ♥ Thank you again for the help.

They have 'rape kits' (this is vocabulary I got off of TV, lol) that help them check for STDs and pregnancy and stuff that they might use on her if they couldn't get a straight answer out of her about what happened or didn't. I guess they could also try to bang him up on assault charges? Maybe. I suppose it would depend on what things look like. But that would work to keep him in custody, too. Could they book him as John Doe? I'm not sure. They might have to keep him in hospital for a while if he can't/won't remember who he is. Psychologists, etc.

I hope I was a little bit of help there. :/

XD oh, poor zea, a rape kit would traumatize her. Nah, once she gets what they're asking she'll probably be very clear on "no he didn't", even though the thought that he might have will shake her up a bit. I just don't know when and how the questioning will take place and how soon they'll know that and what it will change to their behavior around ashram and the possible charges against him.

They can always keep him on "no ID", i think-- as far as they know, he's underage and if there's no guardian to release him to... And he won't be feeling better for a few days and they'll be testing for drugs and illnesses anyway.

(he knows who he is, it's just that "Ashram son of Ashriel of the Astaroth clan" isn't in any database, they can't find an Ashriel on file anyway, and Astaroth as a family name ... ehh. Makes things a bit complicated. They probably think he RPed a bit too hard... XD)

Haha, yeah, I think the automatic reaction would be that he was afflicted by the crazy or giving them lip. XD

Again, it also depends on what she considers sexual assault* -- culturally, that is. It's a seriously loaded term, after all, but in the western world, we mean "sexual interaction against/without consent".

*the term isn't 'rape', which is a narrowly defined act, generally "insertion of an appendage into the orifice of an unwilling person, with sexual overtones" or some such. For the most part, cops/authorities will say sexual assault since this covers everything from self-exposure, groping, attempting to kiss someone, all the way up to rape itself.

Depends on how they ask and/or what conclusions she draws: "did he attempt to force himself on you?" may not necessarily have 'sexual' connotation for her, and if he was forcing her to agree with him, that could confuse her. If they ask, "did he touch you in any way, even when you told him no," again, she may or may not immediately grasp that they're implying sexually, and it's a common language thing to take literally what's meant with more metaphorical/broader meaning.

I'm not sure whether she's also from his time, though, but if she is, then she might also see "being alone with opposite sex" as "interpretation of dishonor" even with all clothes staying on...

She's from out time -- normal french teenage girl, has no clue anything's strange with her just yet (mmm my first mary-sue ♥). She'd be wary of him and kind of nervous, but there wouldn't be any huge cultural problems with the concept of being alone with a guy. It's just, well, common sense of the "he could have raped and killed you!! D:" variety;

She's not so innocent that she would miss many implications, and Ashram did hit on her/leer/entertain thoughts of happyhappy molesting time so she wouldn't start from a totally nonsexual opinion. I'm not sure he touched her, though, if he's that exhausted. He knows she's untrained, but he still wouldn't fancy a magic blast across the face.

... oh hey. Now I'm wondering whether she'd be exhibiting the same symptoms he does (magical exhaustion -- cold, shaking, weak limbs, general exhaustion, lack of balance and coordination.. hmm. Probably a couple of other things, depends what I think up when I write the scene.) What happened was that he needed white magic to free him from where he was sealed up, so he used his own to draw her closer and make her open it for him. It was exhausting for him because he really sucks at mental influence usually. XD But then it would also probably be exhausting for her since she never did it before. It wasn't a weak seal, or else it wouldn't have held Ashram long...

Yeah, the more I think about it and the more it makes sense; she wouldn't look so hot either (probably still better than him though XD). Would they assume he shared his drugs or they're both sick or what? *_* ohh, the shiny issues. Now I'm wondering if they would end up in the same hospital. Oh, so much better than him randomly popping up at her school later on. XDD

Camp, woods, middle-of-nowhere (especially if we're talking the Alps) -- I doubt the search/rescue team would automatically think drugs. They might think exposure, shock, internal bleeding, head trauma, dehydration, exhaustion: these are the risks when hiking. In fact, if the two are showing similar signs, and she's covered in leaves & dirt, the rescuers might think, "one of them must've fallen down a hill, or she was injured and he rescued her or vice versa," which would explain his hostility (concussion, clearly), and her disorientation (dehydration, exhaustion).

In an urban environment, yes, drugs/alcohol would be the first assumption. But out in the woods, there's so much there that can kick your ass and leave you shaking that drugs aren't even the biggest worry.

F'rex, the Sonoran desert, the daytime temp can be up to 114F+, but when the sun goes down, it can plummet to low 30s, and 32F is freezing. The desert doesn't look intimidating if you don't know better, but it can kill you on one extreme, or the other. The Alps aren't much better, just different -- and neither of these would be common knowledge to a kid from an urban/suburban area. I won't even get into the average temperatures of mountain streams -- if either of them fell into the water at any point, expect numbness, mumbled speech, slow movements, loss of coordination, confusion, inability to concentrate. Any searchers are going to pinpoint on that pronto -- that's what they're trained for, after all: not just search, but rescue, too.

Depending on symptoms, the rescuers might also be thinking of poisonous plants/animals -- some spiderbites can cause fever, chills, muscle aches, lockjaw, all sorts of nasty reactions -- especially if both are displaying it.

As for his reactions to them, if he's thoroughly exhausted but leaps up at the sign of approach, I'd expect him to take a step back, lose his balance, and fall on his ass. How's that for some humiliation, and btw, welcome to the twenty-first century, dumbass. Bwah.

sending email!

Woohoo! *refresh refresh*

I have nothing of real help to add, other than this would be a good question for

little_details.

ooh right. Thanks for the suggestion! I totally forgot about that comm. x___x;;

No problem. ~~I had to look at my own profile to check on the name. ^^;~~

Well, I know that if I were the one to find him, I'd focus on getting medical help first. To do that, I guess I'd have to show him that I'm not hostile while someone in my group goes/calls for help. If there's a medic on the team, then getting the guy calm is the first priority, I would think. *ponder*

Even if the dude's possibly a kidnapper and a rapist (assuming, anyway. he doesn't sound like a secret boyfriend to me :\ Especially if she's been missing for a bit), there's not much the police can do with him until he's lucid and in better health.

I could be entirely wrong. These are my own assumptions from watching way too many cop shows :P

Well, the "secret boyfriend" bit (more like "yeah she met him yesterday at the hotel or something and they're flirting", not a "it's been weeks, he followed her on vacation, they're actually dating" thing) comes from the fact that she apparently left the camp of her own will, and when they're found they're sitting a couple of feet from each other and not doing worse than having a chat. It's not really "I just raped you" behavior. XD But then I haven't decided how much of that scene the guys will get to see before he tries to get up and leave. If he hears them coming, and they only see him trying to escape and her on the ground, yeah, there might be a lot more assuming. I'm still weighing all the possibilities.

Yeah, possibilities. That's the fickle part of writing. One thing can change everything or it can change... barely anything. >.o *shakes fist*

As to the "calming him down first" bit, I still haven't decided what I want the outcome to be, so there might or might not be people who would try it on the first team. But Ashram comes from a quite violent civilisation, and from his point of view he wouldn't be surprised at all if they all jumped him and beat him to death. He's more or less expecting it. And he can be really violent, and he has a bit of a "kill before you get killed" mentality. He might eventually understand "we don't want to hurt you, you're safe" behavior, but that probably wouldn't be very fun. XD

... Also not everyone in the group might feel that talking soothingly to the drugged up wannabe rapist is a good idea and might try to pull away the soothing person. I still don't know, there are many choices and I need to get a better idea of all possible repercussions before deciding what kind of people they'll be and how they'll interact.

Thanks for the input! I hadn't fully considered this option yet. ^___^

Hrm, depending on the culture/background, there's also the question of whether he's assuming he'd be beaten/stoned/put to death for talking with a young woman with no chaperone present. Just sitting there talking would be as good as rape, in some culture's eyes. So while she might be saying there's nothing to worry about (as she hears them coming), he might be ready and primed for six angry men to burst out of the woods and beat the crap out of him.

The real question for me is whether -- if he did have this expectation/interpretation of his own behavior, per his own culture's rules -- would he jump up and defend her (expecting her to suffer the same fate), or would he leap away from her to make a huge show of "not doing anything, see, see," in hopes that she'd be seen as innocent?

It's really hard to know how any searchers might react, without knowing the guy's own set of expectations on what he'd think, were he in their shoes. That's going to be the basis for how he acts, after all.

Hmm. That's difficult, I'll have to research the attitude of people in the 1100s for this kind of thing. That's the last he's ever interacted with humans, I think.

As a demon (it's not theologic, just a subspecies of human) ... Well, their civilisation is mostly matrilineal because there's absolutely no reason why a woman's magic would be weaker than a man's and they can deal just as much damage, if not more. Marriage is rare for them, since they live very long and don't have children often (most important bonds are to your mother/siblings, to your tutors, and to the people who follow you in battle -- the father of a child only matters as long as he's also a good friend of the mother or a tutor for the child, but that's a totally unrelated issue. He's never expected to be more than a sperm donor) and they tend to see other species as laughably prudish... That would make him expect dangerous irrational behavior from the rescue team even more.

I'm not sure he'd think of protecting her before protecting himself, so he'd move where he can fight better first and worry about her second. Probably wouldn't expect her to get hurt over it, because -- well, he KNOWS humans wouldn't notice, but a person's aura feels different before and after they've had sex (due to intermingling of the auras blahblahblah -- it never feels as pure/untarnished afterwards. Yes, I did use the cliches "virgins have speshul powerz" and "yay sex magic." XDD Hopefully it will be presented in a believable way.) So basically, anyone he knows would be able to tell if he had "defiled" her, so in the heat of the moment he wouldn't go "oh hey wait, THEY can't tell". Besides he figures she can always lie to save her ass -- or even tell the truth. He was the one who summoned/called her to where he was, she didn't really choose it. (of course, he's not yet aware that humans have totally lost or abandoned magic and even Alizea, who he knows has some magic potential, wouldn't notice if he hadn't told her it hadn't been her choice to come.)

After a few moments it should be clear to him that they're trying to protect her from *him* anyway. On his behalf, he'd probably try to get her back and run if he saw her being mistreated by then, though his first priority is still to protect himself. I mean, she's cute, and humans are stupidly stuck-up, but he doesn't know her and he doesn't fancy dying for her either. D:

... So basically he'd put some distance between him and alizea because she might end up in the middle of the fight. But he's expecting a fight. He'll be doing his best to *look* human at the time, but last he knew humans knew about demons and some of them could still notice, and they were at war with each other. (well technically humans used their fast breeding and huge numbers to drive out and exterminate all other sentient species, which isn't much of a war, but... yeah. Not good. D; He might figure that if he got captured as a human and alizea babbled, or they noticed afterwards that he isn't, he'd probably get tortured...

... oh man, the poor hospital staff. *stares at bunnies in mild bewilderment*

...

........ I just realized he'd be quite "oh fuck is she going to rat me out" about Alizea. He didn't hurt her or anything, but she has no reason to lie and he just can't conceive that she can't tell anyone because they'd think she's crazy. I don't think he's going to fully grasp the concept that humans have no knowledge of magic or other sentient species for a good long while. @_@

Thank you so much for the email, which is awesome and I'm going to read it a couple of times. Ohh, so much info. So much to think about. *_* ♥

I just realized he'd be quite "oh fuck is she going to rat me out" about Alizea.

Unless he doesn't assume that just by having a bunch of people tromp right into the middle of things. If last he knew, humans and demons fought, and magic was known if not accepted, and all he knows is drawing her to the place, how's he to know he didn't accidentally tap someone who's savvy, alerted, and brought reinforcements?

Would he back off until he saw the searchers greet Zea, then realize she knows one or two of them, and leap to the assumption she planned his capture? Seems he'd attack her right off, then -- and if he got in a good hit, yeah... they'd both end up in the hospital, and he'd certainly have a guard on him and restraints, then! ;-)

little_details would be a good place to ask. Make sure to mention where this is happening since what is legal to do to some random person and the results of their getting belligerent with rescue works varies.

And I should have refreshed before I commented since someone said that about 25 minutes ago. The note about location stands though, the folks at LD are sticklers about that (also, time frame, current time, some years in the future/past?) and if there's anything about his looks or behavior that someone trained to spot details would notice, mention that too.

Hm. It's supposed to happen in France, do you think they'll have people who will know? XD;;;;

But i'll ask, if I don't get enough answers here, yeah. ^^ Thank you^^

I'm sure there's someone that would know about how it would work in France. :)

I asked there about Japanese names once, and someone from Japan answered, it was awesome. :)

*leve ses antennes* Le Cercle? *_*
Malheureusement je ne peux pas t'aider T_T Mais j'espère que tu trouveras... J'ai hâte de lire un bout aussi :p (Je suis gentille hein? Je te harcèle même plus!)

You asked good questions; I wish I knew those answers too. And didn't he have wings and look demonish or something? Or did you change that? (Or I could just be misremembering. . .) 'Cause that'd probably have some effect on the search team's behavior, but you sound like you'd have already taken that into account, if that were the case, and you're now working on the littler stuff.

I wish I could be more helpful, because I love the way you pay attention to this sort of thing--it makes it more real.

He can look human if he wants. The way I set it up, "human" is the default setting for a variety of related subspecies -- other metahumans see humans not so much as a real species, but as a non-species -- the poor things, so full of genetic defects they had to interbreed because no one else would have them. u.u But anyway, if you draw your magic deeply enough inside yourself and use a spell to temporarily transform the telltales, it's easy to pass as human... and genetically, he might have quite a few very interesting rare gene combinations, but it wouldn't ping anyone as "this is not homo sapiens DNA."

So... to the rescue team, he'd really just look like a redheaded teenager with yellow-greenish eyes and perfectly normal teeth and nails. The clothes, though, I dunno. XD

So... to the rescue team, he'd really just look like a redheaded teenager with yellow-greenish eyes and perfectly normal teeth and nails. The clothes, though, I dunno.

One word: BATHROBE.

Hahahaha, yeah, to someone not renfaire-going, that's probably what the average long tunic might look like. Either that, or they'll think he's run away from the monastery on the other side of the mountain...and then they'd be all, "oh, you didn't just run away to see a boy, you ran away to see a boy who's on the verge of swearing lifelong celibacy! You corrupting wench!"

bwahah*cough*.

Chronic lurker alert! I actually work in a psychiatric inpatient unit as a therapist in Florida, USA. I can answer your questions about restraining patients to beds. I've witnessed and had to assist in it several times. We also have a law in Florida called the Baker Act, basically if people on the street appear to have mental health issues and the cops are there, they aren't arrested, they get brought to our mental hospital by the cops instead. Many times they speak Spanish, and with not many of the staff speaking Spanish, it can get a little intereseting.

To finally answer your bed restraining question, we try to do so as little as possible. We have a separate seclusion room we lock them in for "time out" for a period of 15 minutes. If they refuse to calm down, 5-6 staff then come in the room to restrain the patient (1 for each limb, 1 for the needle, and 1 guarding the open door) to give the patient an injection basically of sedatives. They are then locked in the room for a period of 15 minutes. If the patient appears to be actively attempting to harm themselves, then they are restrained. (We use velcro/cloth restraints) Again 5-6 staff come in (1 for each limb, 1 guarding the door, and 1 working the restraints). The legs are secured to the bottom of the bed. The arms are restrained, essentially at the sides to avoid cutting off circulation. If the patient says they have to go to the bathroom...they're basically out of luck, or they get a same sex mental health technician in there to take down their pants and they get a bedpan. (Yay) As the patient calms down, they get one restraint removed every 15 minutes. First the non-dominant arm, next the leg diagonal from the free arm, next the other leg, and lastly the dominant arm (going by the theory that it will do the most damage, and the legs are restrained closest to the door end of the bed). If you have any questions feel free to email me: ekuepper@gmail.com.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

cercle -- plotting babble

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Mental Hospital