GWA board again...

[askerian]

EDIT: whoops, I wasn't clear enough, my bad. Hairdresser Chick and Entitlement Complex Chick are two different people ^______^;;; And I've been bothered by Entitlement Complex Chick's attitude for YEARS, which is why it took so little for me to get all RARR at her; I'm not usually quite that sensitive. XD


1) the "hairdresser Duo" strikes again. This time with a "where do you get the idea that the Gboys are gay?" post. 'feh. She's trying so hard to sound non-offensive. It... isn't reeeally working. Oh well, all things considered it's one of her most intelligent posts to date. I seriously wonder, though, how it is that she's been hanging around the GWA board for so many months and is still wondering what's the appeal of slashing boys together when there's nothing in canon proving it.


2) See, there are several kinds of feedback, and unless they are stupid and/or offending, they're all good.

-There's the smart analysis, which is good even when it points out things that don't work, because "OMG they spent time thinking about my fic!" Also because of the possibility of "oops, didn't notice, thanks, will fix so my fic is better".

-There's the fangirl squeeing, which is less intellectually stimulating, but is very very good in terms of happy glowy purring-ness. "wheee, they LOVED my fic!" *happies*

(also can seem less cold and detached than the analysis kind, which is a good thing because half the interest of a fic is the putting-facts-together, but another half is the emotional impact. So really, the two kinds of feedback = equal in my eyes though I like it even better when I know what you liked/noticed. XD)

I define the stupid in terms of 1) total pointlessness, 2) irrelevant-ness, 3) settle down a bit with the quadruple personalities on sugar high plz? and 4) HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE AUTHOR NOTES. (this one is an automatic KILLKILL button for me. Skip the author notes on your way in if you will, but if you've got a question at the end, you better check that it wasn't already answered before you hit send. XD)

The offending is 1) flames, 2) people assuming that I share their beliefs and biases, or if I don't, then I should, 3) people pimping their stories shamelessly, and 4) (which might be less fandom-general and more a me-thing, so people who don't know me from Adam wouldn't guess how much it really bugs me) Telling me to do stuff, even jokingly.



The girl is a regular on the forum. She doesn't spell so good and she isn't that inventive, but she has a habit of reading and commenting on almost everything. Even though most of the time it's not-that-deep one-liners of the "that was good *offers a cookie*" or "*lol* *pats your head*" kind -- that's still... Nice, I guess. As a person... *points at icon*, but these things happen -- sometimes we don't get along with perfectly all right people for some weird reason and that's the way it is -- and as she was never really, actively offensive and did go to the trouble of commenting at all, I tolerated her easily enough.

she uses a dragon ball Z mary-sue as her icon. right.

So I post my Garou sidefic-crack-things there.

you're evil you know that!
now work some on the actual story instead of teasing us!

So yeah, I realize it's a bit, not quite pointless, but ... too general in a way?, but not THAT offensive compared to some of the entitlement-whoring I've dealt with. Excepted that the girl tends to act like that a lot -- like her constant presence on the forum equals somehow a right to be patronizing. To keep with the werewolf theme XD... Like it makes her higher in the pecking order in some way. Like a dominant.

I, yeah, kinda tend to take that badly.

So I replied, as polite as I could because GWA is a place where you have to be polite. I was annoyed, though, and it shows (hell yes it does -- it's MEANT to show. I don't like her.), but I don't think I was that unreasonable.

you do realize that one of the major reasons why I got tired of the GW fandom was the way the "fans" kept demanding me to write for them as if they actually had a right to order me around and I had nothing better to do, right? I know you don't mean it that way, but my kneejerk reaction to any "now write!" comment about Garou is still a very impolite version of "I'll write what I want to write when I want to write it, and if you don't like it, I don't care." Please don't do it again.

Her reply:

You realise responces like that make me simply not want to review at all!

My first reaction, to be frank, was something of a THANK GOD. Because I was getting tired of having to pretend to be glad for every stupid, patronizing head-patting and cookie-giving and smarmy, empty "aren't you a good girl" mistake-ridden one-liner.

... my actual reply isn't much better, really. XD

You realize it won't be a big loss. Your reviews have never been particularly insightful or amusing.

I asked you politely to stop doing something that extremely bothers me, and now, seeing your reaction, I'm not so sure that this isn't exactly how you meant to sound; superior and entitled. So, to repeat: Garou is MY story. I write it when I want, IF I want. No one orders me around.

Allow me to share part of the author's notes that I have used at FFnet, and that I didn't think necessary to use here seeing as I truly believe that the average GWA member is way above the stupidity of the average FFnet member...

Quote:
I have left the GW fandom. Garou is NOT abandoned yet, but the updates will be REALLY slow (think maybe one chapter every 6 months to a year.) There's also the possibility that I will discontinue it. IF YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH THAT, DON'T START TO READ IT. The more mails I get yelling at me to get off my ass and write because I owe it to the readers to complete it, the less I feel like bothering. I've come this close to deleting the fic several times as it is. I really don't need the aggravation from its "fans".


So yes, if morons with an entitlement complex bother me too much about Garou, I will simply go around and delete every single copy there is on the web. Seeing that I don't have much of an emotional link with the story anymore, believe me, I really don't give enough of a damn about your "reviews" to actually apologize for being irritated by your inability to give me some respect. I'm a person, not a fic-writing machine. I was polite in explaining to you how I felt; you chose, not to understand what I felt, but to act offended and to blackmail me with your reviews.

Well. Keep them. No, really.



X3 Ahhh. *enjoying getting to be a bitch for once*

I realize she's not entirely in the OMG DIE category -- you're allowed to think that I reacted more harshly than I should have. I'm thinking I did, too, a little. Hey, maybe she really thinks that she was perfectly friendly and that her feedback is great. Though someone should really tell her that quality =/= quantity.

But I can't make myself feel guilty, because god does she push my "who the fuck do you think you are" button. Rarrr.

Comments

[complexphoenix.livejournal.com]

It's an insoluble problem, really. The conflict between wanting to get reviews, and wanting to regulate the kinds of reviews you get. You keep trying and trying, trying to explain what's good and what's bad, and there are some people who will just not get it, because they cannot process it or misunderstand your words- some of it is the imperfection of people and some is the imperfection of the language. Argh. So many of your well-meaning fans are now conflicted about reviewing, because they want to support you with reviews but are worried about sounding like a fantwit or an entitlement whore. It hurts. It makes me feel sad.

[chrismakkuh.livejournal.com]

Well, no, I don't feel that way because of her post. I've always felt that way.

And she conveyed here message well enough for me not to be offended. I just wanted here opinion on the Lurking/Not Posting bit...

I mean, she really had no need to be offended. Asuka answered honestly and it is her story.

So if a person doesn't like what an author says, in response to a supposedly "intelligent" review, don't respond any more or stop reading. No need to start petty, immature arguments, stating how "I'm not doing *enter supposed insult here* anymore, because I didn't like the way you responded to my obviously very cool and witty review".

[askerian]

So many? You actually know of many of them, or are you generalizing to make you look like part of a whole? ô_e


-I have no problem with people saying "I want more" if it's part of a review and they touch onto other points -- even silly points like "aww Heero was so cute" or "teehee, red boxers!". If I don't know them and they come in and go "write more now or else" (especially when it's NOT EVEN ON THE MAIN FIC that they're commenting), I get annoyed. IT'S COMMON SENSE. If they don't have the common sense of knowing that it's not polite to demand things of people they don't know without even giving anything in return, then frankly it's no big loss.

--- there's a big, BIG difference between "I can't wait for more!" or even "next chapter soon, please?" and "Work on this now!"

-I have no problem with people spazzing around, so long as it's not totally random and irrelevant à la "whee, pixie sticks are kewl! MAROON DOGS ARE COOLER THAN RED LIMOS!!".

-I don't eat people for commenting, unless what they say is incredibly WTF or offensive.

-this girl, in particular, has been ticking me off for years. It usually takes a lot more than that to get me to explode; this one built over time. I thought it was clear.


I love reviews. This, I think, I've made clear. So long as the people reviewing are polite, I will be polite right back. I am never going to bitch at someone who treats me with a normal amount of respect (not as an author -- authors aren't zomg BETTER -- just as a person). If some people feel intimidated by my bitching out people who annoy me -- well, they probably wouldn't have commented in the first place.

Even if they would have, it's a choice between a handful of people commenting to counterbalance the morons, and my actually evacuating the stress and annoyance by voicing what bothers me. It's a choice between a few lurkers popping out of the woodwork and my personal wellbeing.

I know the lurkers are here, and I will never force them to come out if they don't want to; even if I never know who they are or how many, I'm still grateful that they're here at all. But I will not censor myself in the hopes of gleaning a handful of "um. that was good." comments.

Reviews are not actually mandatory, nor do their exact number actually mean anything. If some people are too shy to give their opinion, it's alright with me. I'm really not going to die.

[animeprincess.livejournal.com]

So many? You actually know of many of them, or are you generalizing to make you look like part of a whole? ô_e

._. actually, i think she was referring to something she read on my journal, since in one of your other posts we went off-topic and i generally tend to sound rather immature. i can be, i enjoy being fangirl-squealy, but in my effort of being a good fangirl, i feel i tend to be somewhat annoying, and when you froze the responces there, i said i might not reply again because i was probably annoying you. and i really don't want to annoy, honest; i just tend to get overexcited and mentally piddle on the floor.

so, essentially, i can either go on, post reviews on my thoughts when you post story, and fangirl over pictures, or if i DO annoy you, please let me know and i'll leave you be, or whatever you think is best. but really,i like being squeely and cute and silly, it's what makes me happy as a fan. being serious and all just doesn't fit me.

[complexphoenix.livejournal.com]

Hehe yeah, the "one other" mentioned in my comment below is you :) I didn't want to be specific unless you wanted to speak up :)

[askerian]

-__-; I know you by now; the happy fangirly bit isn't really so much of a problem. The hijacking and spamming the hell out of my posts -- a little bit more. I'm not running a message board here. I don't want you to stop participating here, though. I froze the replies because i really didn't feel like going through a few more posts of "whoops, i'm sorry, i didn't mean it" "it's alright, just don't do it again" "okay sorry again" "it's alright NOW STOP SPAMMING". That way, my inbox was protected from the start. :D (well, almost. from the middle?) If I needed an apology, I would have left the last comment open. I didn't so I closed it all. makes sense?

[complexphoenix.livejournal.com]

I know for a fact of myself and one other. I feel it is reasonable to figure there are more, given how limited my close-friendly circle is. Sorry if I sounded dumb :P

In this day and age "common sense" is, dare I say, not as common as a person may think. And I say common, not so much in the sense of frequent- it's not that people have lost their sense- but their sense is constantly changing, and different groups of people are changing in different ways. Some people out there would argue that not writing yaoi fanfic is common sense. Some have become so accustomed to having their desires catered to by machines and rigidly controlled bureaucracies that they forget that human beings are different from machines and require respect. Some people are just so young that they haven't learned the difference yet. What seems WTF to you or me may seem perfectly sensible to the person saying it. Or it may be a brain glitch that they will look back at and wonder what got into them. At any rate, there are so many different kinds of people online from so many backgrounds that culture shock is inevitable.

I've been slowly figuring out what flies and what doesn't with you, but it's been taking awhile. There will always be new people encountering your work for the first time who don't know the drill and will press your buttons without meaning to, or who aren't so well-meaning but don't understand when to bite their tongue.

I remember the days when I wrote fanfics for my old fandom. I remember getting an average of about 4 reviews per fic, and it made me sad. So, I made a point to always comment on others' fics, when I didn't comment I felt terrible, because I knew what it felt like to get only a handful of reviews or none at all. I suspect that the girl in question was of a similar mind.

I apologize if I'm being a devil's advocate. But fantwits and entitlement whores are people too. Annoying, but still human, and although I don't like them (because they distract you from writing Uchihacest) I understand to some degree where they are coming from.

I'll keep reviewing, and I'll try my best to avoid topic-hijacking (which seems to be my most frequent error.) I apologize if anything in this comment sounded stupid. There are still some points you said that I haven't addressed and wish to. I'll address them in the morning, after I've slept.

[askerian]

second paragraph = plz not to bury teh asuka under pretty philosophy.

It's not the end of the world to get snapped at. It sounds like you're thinking that I risk traumatizing innocent newbies into NEVER DARING TO PARTICIPATE AGAIN OMG. I assure you, not only do I not directly reply to innocent newbie blunders with the same level of aggression that I use in my LJ, but even if they find my LJ and read it -- they'll live. And if my rantings actually traumatize them, they're not thick-skinned enough and would have quickly ended up running into someone much, much worse than I am. Stop trying to make me feel like I'm a horrible utter bitch and should be ashamed of not being more of a doormat kthnx.

I understand that this girl acts at least half on wanting to be nice. But. My major problem is with her attitude. No, I'm not a pet for her to give cookies to when I manage a sufficiently interesting trick, and no, I'm not actually so OMG GRATEFUL for her half-assed one-liners that i'm going to roll over and apologize for bothering her with my feelings if she takes them away. Maybe i'm taking her all wrong, but her attitude, to me, is half "being nice" and half "well of COURSE you're going to be grateful to me". No. I deal very, very badly with that condescending, "now I have reviewed so you owe me one" attitude.

It's not objective. I have never said it was objective. I don't like her. I have never liked her. Everything she says makes me twitch. I've pointed this lack of objectivity out already, it isn't as if I was trying to pretend that she's utterly evil and everyone should agree that she must be destroyed. Feel free to like her or not, I don't give a damn if you disagree with me on what is ultimately a very personal and subjective matter, but stop berating me for talking about it in my own space, thank you.

[complexphoenix.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to berate. I'm only trying to tell you what I see happening here. What you do, whether you listen, is entirely up to you. I am not trying to convince you to stop ranting so much as I'm trying to inform you of the effects I see. The things you say are true. I don't mean to make you feel like you're a horrible utter bitch and I'm sorry I did. I never meant to give a guilt trip. And now I feel another philosophy bunny calling me to talk about laments and rants and it's pretty but- yeah. *shoos the bunny away*

Hehe, I understand irrational dislike of people, I've felt that way myself. I don't like being ordered around, or condescended to, or guilt tripped, and I can understand easily why you don't either.

And please disregard that comment I deleted if it gets mailed to you. Argh. I don't know what possessed me to hit the post button. *dies of mortal shame*

fuck LJ for eating my reply D: *starts all over again*

[askerian]

Uhh. How do you reconcile "didn't mean to berate" and "trying to tell you what I see happening" + "whether you listen" exactly?

I've tried to cope with my anger by shoving it in a corner and ignoring it. Usually I end up in tears, shaking, for hours afterwards, and I feel shitty for days. When I post about it, I go and read it again, and then I laugh at my own ranty over-the-top-ness and go on my merry way. I know that some people feel guilty for feeling angry, and some people are able to just let it go and forget, but I can't just stuff it in a corner and hope it will go away. For me it doesn't; it festers. Don't assume that because you don't deal with open anger well, it means it's a self-destructive attitude for everyone.

If my rants make you uncomfortable, you're free to avoid them, they're certainly not mandatory reading. In the end, though : my journal, my choices of subjects. Please remember that.

Re: fuck LJ for eating my reply D: *starts all over again*

[complexphoenix.livejournal.com]

1. Hmm. Berating implies a certain level of stridency. I didn't feel very strident. It's the difference between speaking to the point and speaking in favor of a particular side, I think.

2. If ranting really does work for you? I will never feel so bothered by your rants again now that I know this :)

3. You are the queen here. *curtsies graciously*