askerian | sharingan-people timeline thing yay~

Current Mood: nerdy

Entry tags:

sharingan-people timeline thing yay~

So I promised

joosetta a Kakashi and Itachi during their ANBU days fic and I really want to write it right -- also, I really REALLY want a good idea of the timeline in general, which is why Sasuke was added on. SO.

According to narutofan.com, at the start of the series, kakashi is 27, Itachi 17 and Sasuke 12. We'll take these baselines -- so this means Kakashi is 10 years older than Itachi who is 5 years older than Sasuke, give or take a few months.

I don't know if my numbers are correct and I don't know where to find references, so if you know an age I'm missing or have an idea of the chapter in which I can find that info, please tell me.

-Kakashi is born- no Itachi yet- no sasuke yet
-Kakashi(6?)Genin- No Itachi yet- no Sasuke yet
-Kakashi(10)- Itachi is born- No Sasuke yet-
(...)

-Kakashi (13?) Jounin (Obito dies)- Itachi(3?)- No Sasuke yet-
-Kakashi(15)- Itachi(5)- Sasuke is born- YAY KYUUBI.
-Kakashi(18?)- Itachi(8) Sharingan? - Sasuke (3)
+?
-Kakashi(?)ANBU- Itachi(?) - Sasuke(?)-
(...)

-Kakashi(?)- Itachi(? but less than 13)Jounin-ANBU- Sasuke(?)-
(...)

-Kakashi(23)?- Itachi(13)Uchiha Massacre- Sasuke(8)-
(...)
-Kakashi(27)- Itachi(17)- Sasuke(12)- Beginning of the series
-Kakashi(28)- Itachi(18)- Sasuke(13 or almost)- TIMESKIP.

I need to know:

-How old was Itachi when he first activated his sharingan? when he became a genin? when he because a jounin? when he entered ANBU? If you don't have numbers -- well he was supposedly even younger than Kakashi when he did all that, so if it doesn't contradict canon I can extrapolate.

-How old was Kakashi when he became ANBU? presumably after Obito's death -- how old was he when his dad died? when Obito died? 13? so he'd have been 13 or 14 or later when he made ANBU. When did he stop? MYSTERY. So long as he's ANBU while Itachi is, no problem.

Random idea:If Sasuke was a few months old when Kyuubi attacked, and if I don't remember wrong about Itachi getting his sharingan at 6, Itachi might have developped his sharingan in response to the trauma of the Kyuubi attack. Interesting idea, to check and possibly explore. aw, no, he was apparently 8. damn.

Also, were there other conflicts in progress during these years? I seem to remember something regarding tension between the Hyuugas and a rival Kage, but I'm hazy on the details.

EDIT: Thanks everyone!! That was really informative. I now have several sources, ~~all geekier than the previous one,~~ huhuhuhu. *captures bunnies and cages them* <3<3<3<3

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think Itachi developed his sharingan at age eight rather than six, and Kakashi said something about him being captain of the ANBU at twelve (or eleven?), but I don't know when he actually joined it.

I'm pretty sure that he developed the sharingan at eight, though, 'cause eight-year-old Sasuke commented once that Itachi had developed it at his age.

aw damn, i think you're right. too bad, it was a neat idea. But it probably didn't help his mental stability all that much. :p

Hell, I'm almost fully convinced that Itachi was a sociopath from birth. The only effect I could see that battle having on him is maybe some fascination with the pure power of the kyuubi, in a 'humans can't touch that' kind way.

...or, you know, if that was when his dissatisfaction with the limits of his clan began, that would be kind of cool. It would make a great loop around to Naruto and Sasuke again.

Alhough he is certainly one now, I do not think that Itachi was a sociopath from birth. The evidence for this is in Sasuke's flashbacks during his battle with Naruto in the Valley of the End. The impression that I got is that before he joined ANBU, Itachi was reasonably normal and stable. He demonstrated consideration of others when he said he'd blow off his big mission to attend Sasuke's academy entrance ceremony. After joinging ANBU he seemed to develop more and more discontent, becoming more and more disillusioned with his clan until he killed Shisui. Even after killing Shisui, though, his decay was incomplete; when he was arguing with the other Uchihas who suspected him of killing Shisui and the srgument was about to come to blows, he stopped when Sasuke cried out to him. Shortly thereafter he committed the massacre and left Konoha for good.

I would really like to hear Itachi's side of the story- we've seen it from Sasuke's POV, but there is so much about Itachi's experiences and motives and feelings that we do not know yet. "To see what I could do" doesn't explain it fully. The timing of his decline suggests that his joining ANBU and his experiences with that had something to do with it. My tentative guess is that the character of what ANBU does- assassinations and dealing with the darkest aspects of the ninja world- combined with the lack of mental and emotional maturity that goes with being 13 years old made him believe that Konoha and his clan did not have the morals he thought they had. This triggered an internal crisis, followed by hating his clan and his village, to believing that the only important thing is power, and the rest is history.

(Note that I do not have the manga, I only watch the anime, so if the manga has presented something along these lines please don't give me any spoilers :)

My general response to Itachi's decline has always been 'this is why you don't put thirteen-year-olds into assassin squads, no matter HOW damn good they are - you wait until they're old enough to deal with it!'

Er, well, I don't watch the anime, so I'm not sure how much I can say without running into differences/spoilers.

But, when I was looking for characteristics (at this site (http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/428/428lect16.htm)) to explain myself, I found out that I was using the wrong term to convey what I thought of Itachi--a common sociopath would fit your view of him, as a person who was socialized into that kind of callous, absence-of-a-conscience attitude we've seen of him in the more recent years. My view of him is that he's a psychopath, in the literal sense.

I'm willing to hold out some belief that there's a good side to Itachi, or at least an explanation of him better than what we have so far--Kishimoto has written only one completely flat villain that I can remember, and that was the gangster guy in the Wave country episodes who was more a plot device than a real character. But from what we have seen, I don't get the feeling that Itachi's instability is the result of his ANBU work. There's was a whole generation that grew up during the war and was pushed too much--maybe not to the extent of being an ANBU at 10-12, but I don't think a 16 to 20 year old would handle a steady schedule of assassinations and espionage and cleanup work on the level of the ANBU much better than a 12-year-old would, and I think there's been the implication that Kakashi was a member around that age group--and none of them turned out the way Itachi did. So, I get the impression that this wasn't something that was socialized on him so much as something that was already there.

As for the fight over Shisui--I'm assuming that the anime had this, if it didn't, then it's been discussed enough that it's probably not a spoiler--there was the clear implication that the reason Itachi killed Shisui was to gain the mangekyou sharingan. That's a very cold-blooded thing to do, as well as one that would be found out once he used the mangekyou, so I don't think he would have killed Shisui until he was already planning to massacre his clan. And as for his attitude regarding Sasuke, I viewed that as examples of the charming and manipulative traits of a psychopath. We've pretty much had it beaten in, by sheer fact that Itachi has for no obvious reason as of yet not killed Sasuke, that he's been breeding Sasuke for something--and I'm sure when we find out, it will be something that serves his own purposes. I interpreted basically everything about the way Itachi acted around Sasuke as a lie, to keep moving Sasuke closer to whatever it is Itachi wanted from him.

I guess it's just a different way of seeing things--I can understand how you draw the view of him that you do, but I see the examples you use (him saying he'll go to Sasuke's ceremony instead of a mission, refraining from possibly re-attacking other Uchiha members, including his father, when Sasuke yelled) as deceit on Itachi's part, to keep maybe the clan members but primarily Sasuke from knowing the kind of person he really is.

If I remember right it was w/ the Cloud Village, but I don't think it was Raikage specifically. Someone from Cloud had kidnapped Hinata and wanted her father (I can never keep Hiashi and Hizashi straight) in her stead so they could get the Byakugan. Neji's dad goes instead (since Cloud wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the twins), that whole deal (and the reason Neji's got such a beef w/ the main house).

I'm pretty sure it wasn't anything dealing w/ the Raikage. I think Hinata was about 4 at the time. (The episodes are in the end of the seriously Dragonballing Chuunin exam, somewhere)

I thought that the guy from Cloud who kidnapped her was sent by the Raikage because he was supposed to be signing a peace treaty between Leaf and Cloud. But the whole deal with the almost kidnapping and the politics of paying back that guy's death with a member of the house made it all really confusing.

the mess about the caged bird seal was when Hinata turned tree (and Neji was 4), during the celebration of peace between Cloud and Konoha, and soon after people from Cloud tried to kidnap Hinata.

Thanks for the corrections. I was being too lazy to look it up. I'd forgotten about the treaty mess. Although it never specifically mentions Raikage, if it almost came to war, then it must've been condoned by him.

It's chapter 102 of the manga. I ended up looking it up. (not that bored, just procrastinating that much. ^_^)

Oh! Oh! *jumps up and down* I know this!

Itachi
Itachi was never a jounin. He was still only chuunin rank when he left the village, even while ANBU captain.

And now we get into the Messed Up Uchiha Timeline of Contradictions and Plotholes Galore (i.e. Kishimoto fucked up / confused the hell out of everyone). We get contradictory evidence on the age of Itachi when entering ANBU and for killing his clan, as well as for Sasuke's age when the clan was killed.

By people who analyze this timeline in their free time for fun, Sasuke is considered to be seven years old when the clan was killed -- this would have been between Itachi's and Sasuke's birthday that year, in that month and a half over summer between those dates. In other words, Sasuke would have turned eight shortly after the massacre.

We don't know how old Itachi was when the Sharingan first awoke in him, but he had "mastered" it by eight, according to Sasuke. For a comparison, Sasuke's Sharingan awoke during the Haku fight, but he hadn't mastered it until the fight in the Valley of the End (if that is considered "mastering" it at all, since it only fully formed and he still probably didn't know how to fully use it effectively).

Kakashi
Kakashi had just turned twenty-six a month before the start of the series, not twenty-seven. He turned fourteen a month before Kyuubi was defeated and sealed inside of Naruto.

Kakashi would have been eight when Itachi was born. Kakashi was born in September, Itachi in June, so Kakashi turned nine later that year, after Itachi was born.

Obito was thirteen when he died (according to the databook). Kakashi was probably (but not certainly) the same age. We don't know how old Kakashi was when he went into ANBU, or whether it was before or after Obito's death.

Kyuubi Trauma = Itachi's Sharingan
YES! @__@ *wrote something on that once* I mean, yes, it's entirely possible. XD

And, uh... I think that covers it. Let me know if you think I messed up somewhere, or if you need clarification. I love this shit. >.>

whoa. Thanks so much. O_O I need to start my damn timeline from scrap now though. You're completely sure?

Well, like I said, there are some contradictions in the manga, but these are the generally agreed-upon dates and ages, yes.

Hmm... Here's the Great Naruto Timeline at the NarutoFan Forums, for reference:
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=12409

And... and there's another good link, hold on... *dig dig dig* Found it! This explains the messed up timeline of the Uchihas just a bit more.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=5849
But what we came up with in that thread wouldn't be the end-all of it, of course. Even my attempt at bridging the problems has problems with it, as Spectrum points out. But it's worth a look to understand the problems better. *shrugs* I guess it's up for creative license. XD

oh thanks so much

... but i just noticed something and i'm not sure the point was raised...

They graduate in october. then the haku mission is placed in march -- that's a HUGE gap for just a handful of missions. Was it placed there only because of the mention that it's spring? Because, um. In Japan... since they're probably in the South hemisphere and all... In the Northern Hemisphere, they're around January. In the Southern , the cold months occur around July. Spring in the Naruto world would most likely be from September to November.

Do you know if that was even mentioned? *still reading*

Japan is in the northern hemisphere, so spring is still in the March-May timeframe. ;D School years in Japan start in March, with the beginning of spring -- about the time the cherry blossoms begin to fall.

As for the time gap, they were probably training for the most part. *shrugs* From the start of the series to Sasuke's departure was about a year, and they only completed, what, eight missions? O__o *needs to check that number* ~~So they were either training or getting the sex on.~~

For the missions, Kishimoto does not make sense. For example, Team Gai have been genin for a year, right? They have only what, two or three more missions then the rookie nine?

All right. Pulled out the official character databook, squinted and headached until I could decipher some of the key kanji, and here are some stats for you:

Kakashi graduated the Ninja Academy at the age of five. He became a Chuunin at the age of six. (It's interesting to note that both Obito and Rin didn't graduate until age nine, and both became Chuunin at age eleven.) Obito died at the age of thirteen (and Kakashi's age at that time isn't known for certain.)

Itachi graduated the academy at the age of seven. He became a Chuunin at age ten. Also, as of the first databook, Itachi is listed as being seventeen years old, and Sasuke is listed as being twelve. As of the second databook, he is listed as being eighteen and Sasuke is listed as being thirteen. This puts them as five years and six weeks apart in age.

How's re-doing the timeline going? Pain in the arse? I have some stuff drawn up already, if you're looking for help on it, or if you just want to see my version of it. Let me know!

Kyuubi Trauma = Itachi's Sharingan

I doubt it. In the anime Sasuke says that Itachi "could use his Sharingan when he was eight" so I presume he activated it then. Itachi would have been five when the Kyuubi attacked. Also, since Sasuke activated his Sharingan after graduating from the academy, I have generally presumed that Itachi did too- he graduated at seven, so it fits.

Then again, if you can make a good story out of it, I say screw the picky details and make it slightly AU. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, no-sir-ee.

In the manga, the term used is "master the Sharingan," [chapter 224, Inane translation] which is different than awakening. I take it to mean, literally, that he could actually use it effectively.

It seems that the Sharingan awakens and advances in times of trauma: Sasuke's sharingan awakens while fighting Haku, his Sharingan in one eye advances from one tomoe to two in the fight against Orochimaru, and both eyes advance in the fight against Naruto. Kyuubi attacking the village, people fleeing to evacuate, etc. etc, could possibly be traumatic enough to awaken the Sharingan in a child of five -- even if he couldn't really use and master it until later due to issues such as chakra capacity and training.

Itachi was also training at a much younger age than Sasuke was. To get where he was, and judging from his relationship with his father, Itachi probably received a lot of training at home other children his age didn't, which could also contribute to an early awakening. Also, the war has already come up several times in this thread. We know for a fact that children who were raised in times of war are raised to ninja at younger ages than in times of current peace -- which means intensive training must have started at a younger age for Itachi than for Sasuke, and putting Itachi in the position to be more capable of awakening the Sharingan at a much younger age than what we've seen from others in the series. Itachi and Sasuke are not alike.

Certainly, we don't know anything for sure. But I would be hesitant to discount these notions as "AU" as they can fit so snuggly into canon. It's entirely possible until it's stated otherwise from a canon source -- as all fanon theories go.

*snerk* Maybe he killed his teddy bear to get it. He would have done it, too.

ICON LUV.

I recall you saying/whining about how you needed/wanted a sexy kyu/naru icon and stuff. So I ruthlessly exploited my imageready to make you one. This *points* is what happened. Sorry for the faintness and skipyness and stuff but cutting it down to the right file size was hard and sacrifices had to be made. Anyways, icon is for you

XD that's nice of you! but um it goes so fast I don't have the time to read. besides the yellow with that font, um. yeah. o_o;;

*cuddleloves anyway*

I'll fix it. And put the white BG back (made it transparent because it lowered the file size)

It says

"Kyubi no Kitsune"
"Master of Perfect positioning"
"Except for the fact Sasu-chan is refusing to turn around"

Soo. It's said that Itachi became chuunin at ten and became Anbu half a year after, which makes him either eleven or ten and a half. And for the Hyuuga-- there was an ambush on Hinata from the Cloud village and when they saved her and killed the Cloud ninjas the Cloud were all 'omgWEDIDNOT'' so they demanded to have the Hyuuga leader as a sacrifice and then we get Neji's dad sacrificing himself and the beginning of Neji's angst. ~~I do not rewatch Naruto obsessively, stfu~~

*cough* well, from what i've gathered(from the narutofan.com site, in the Neji character bio, squee), on Hinata's birthday, Neji gets marked with the "Bird in a Cage" seal on his forehead. on that day, a peace treaty person from Cloud Country comes and attempts to assassinate someone(need to go look again...*sigh*) and Hiashi(Hinata's dad) kills him. Cloud country gets pissed, and a sacrifice is demanded. Hizashi(Neji's dad) is killed in Hiashi's stead, and his body is sent to Cloud country.

*coughcough* and now i must trot to school and work my tush off until 10:30. x_x and it is almost 4 pm here....

Kakashi was 5 years old when he became a genin

Six, thank you very much.

Actually, it's said he became a chuunin when he ''was half Naruto's age'' at the time, which was 12, so he actually became _chuunin_ at 6. ~~and that makes me go wtf a lot~~

Say what?! Oh snap. I thought he graduated at 6.
~~Wtf Konoha. O_o~~

Yes well, each time I see that I act like it never happened. Because damnit, SIX. I think they were just in need of soldiers right-now. Or I hope so. Because damnit, most kids just learned how to TIE THEIR SHOELACES at 6. wtf Konoha, WTF.

Well, when my cousin was 6 (he's 8 now) he tried to murder me by biting me in the jugular.

So I can see it happening.

It just makes me lawl, though. One good stomp from a 6 foot tall person and that kid's DEAD.

Just imagine a big, mucled man ~~like those Naruto does-not-have~~ VS the little six years old.

Then imagine the six year old pwning him by a kick to the shins.

Dude, power to the ninja midgets!

Or he could just bite him in the crotch.

...

Bad mental images.

Just like in Kenshin! ...

...

so that's where he got the affinity for porno. Crotch view.

The poor, misguided kid.

*has been butting into conversations all over this thread, sees no reason to stop now*

I got the impression that Kakashi's rapid graduation and progression to chuunin was an abnormality at the time. Like, Rin and Obito were both genin by nine and chuunin by eleven, so I think you're right, that there was a demand for soldiers as fast as possible. Kakashi just went through the ranks a lot sooner because he was a scary genius or something.

They were still at war at the time, weren't they? With Kumo and/or Iwa. It would be normal they needed the soldiers - especially with the lost of the White Fang. It's the same situation as Orochimaru -- Sandaime let him live because they needed such a genius at the time.

@___@ For some reason I want to say that Kakashi was in the Academy and graduated (to be Genin) at 5, and by 6 he was already a Chunnin. And he was promoted to Jounin during the Gaiden (which was about 12/13).

I'm pretty sure it was AFTER that when Kakashi becomes ANBU because he still seems pretty young when we see him in the Naruto movie in the ANBU gear. Then, I think he stopped being ANBU and returned to being a Jounin (and teaching teams) some time before the series starts, since Sandaime had that little book that showed Kakashi never passed any of his Academy graduates to be Genin.

I'm pretty sure Kakashi was 26 when he took on a genin team.

Itachi became an ANBU captain at 14 and he graduated the academy and became a genin at 7. Mastered the sharingan at 8 and killed his clan somewhere around 14 also.

So you would have to make him 14 to Kakashi's 20-21. Hey that could work .... after all he was precocious in every thing else.

**warning crack suggestion**

As an aside how about the story of Itachi rejecting Orochimaru...after all he wanted Itachi's body first.

**hey, I like butting in**

Actually, what's weird is, by the timeline, Orochimaru left Akatsuki before Itachi even entered it. As it's said when Orochimaru comes back that he left the village seven years ago, when Naruto was five.

Or **crack suggestion here** maybe Itachi was in the Akatsuki far before he even slaughtered his clan. Whut. oO

http://narutoanime.na.funpic.de/Graduierung.htm

click that link, love. it's a German site, but "Jahre" is obviously 'years' - and the words and names are the same, so you should have no difficulties. if you do, ask me, alright? ^^

I don't know how helpful this would be but. . .
This is all the info I have on Itachi and his past. It comes from watching/reading every episode/chapter in which Itachi appears over and over and over. . .

-Entered Academy at 6
-Graduated at 7
-mastered Sharingan at 8 (possibly awakened it before then?)
-Chuunin at 10
-half a year after making Chuunin is the first mention of Itachi joining ANBU (the mission he blows off for Sasuke's entrance into Academy)
-6 months after joining ANBU he killed Shisui
-made ANBU squad leader at 13
-slaughtered clan when Sasuke was 7/almost 8 (Sasuke remarks on the day of the massacre that he is the same age as Itachi was when he graduated)

-he's somewhere between 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 years older than Sasuke

-17 when he comes back for Naruto

I'm not entirely sure how correct all of this is (mistranslation can always happen) but it's the info I gathered from the episodes/chapters themselves.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

sharingan-people timeline thing yay~

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Hyuugas and Kage

Wasn't it part of a war that was going on?

Re: Hyuugas and Kage

Re: Hyuugas and Kage

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

ehhh, unrelated

Re: ehhh, unrelated

Re: ehhh, unrelated

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject