askerian | (no subject)

Entry tags:

ofic: territoriality

(no subject)

Um, I'm having the stupidest dilemma.

See, this fic is... well... unashamedly using Gundam Wing characters. But there's no gundams or other mobile suits and their backstories are kind of different, and I wonder if when it's done I could erase out all the GW things and make it entirely oficcy.

Basically I'm wondering if I shouldn't rename them NOW, so as to avoid confusion in my brain with my previous GW fic that also involved werewolves. Also because I want to get rid of unnecessary little details like Duo having an unnatural attachment to his braid, and it would help if readers don't associate the name with "priest kid with braid blahblah sister helen blah". So that's a bit farther from canon than I usually get. And since I don't have that association it would be easier for me to remember to actually add some freakin backstory in this mess, instead of assuming people already know it all, and making it readable to people who don't necessarily know the original canon.

But in the other hand I'm still using GW character personalities. Or at least the bases. And it would be kind of obvious (at least until the eventual rewrite) that it's more or less GW fanfic in disguise, because apart from the fact that Duo's got a ponytail and a three day beard, the physical appearances wouldn't be that different.

Would it come off as kind of fake to use different names?

[Poll #1479194]

The names would be: Tyr Lowe (Tyr being the son of Odin, i r so subtle. no more japanese ancestry btw, it was never even visible on him and he wasn't raised in the culture either), Duane Maxwell (I've got to change Maxwell for ... something not Maxwell. But so far I can't figure out a thing. Maxwell suits him so well. Also it's really easy to bark in an irritated manner >:DDDD), Tracy Bates (so Duane can tease him about the girly name XD not crazy about Bates though. Suggestions? Would like a name that starts with B and that sounds good when used in discussion -- a lot of people don't use his first name), Cameron Gabriel Wright (Probably goes by Gabe, I think), Xiang Yu Wei (I just liked the vowels the most in Wufei's name, so... yeah. XD;)

... Actually i'm gonna type out the story with those names, because I believe it'll help me remember to actually put some backstory and worldbuilding in instead of assuming. But I want to know whether I should switch 'em back when I post, either because it'll throw the readers out or because it seems too much like cheating/fake as if I was trying to pretend I built the characters myself from the ground up. Because the Gboys are very archetypal in a way and I do plan to deepen them and make them evolve a bit, but they're always going to be there at the core.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Use your own names. There's nothing wrong with it *g* I mean, you already know in a rewrite that it'll probably get farther from GW, & it doesn't even sound like a fanfic-in-disguise.

Well, the personalities are still really close, so... .__. I feel a little bad about it.

I'm writing with my own names, we'll see. With the way I write the story might crash and burn in three days and then it'll be a moot point.

/Delurks

I'd say use your own names if it makes it easier for you.

ahHAH! *throws lurker net*

Yeah, I think I'll do that. ^__^ (of course there's the matter of how I'm a whore for reviews and all that jazz, but thaaaat's for later. I'll try not to think about it for now. >___>;;;;)

Je te conseillerai de faire le changement dès maintenant parce que ça t'offrira plus de liberté. Même inconsciemment, en gardant le nom, tu gardes l'univers de GW. En leur offrant directmeent leur "vraie" identité, tu leur et tu t'offres la possibilité de découvrir des choses sur eux au détour d'une phrase qui ne serait peut-être pas apparu et dans un recoin de ton esprit, ça reste malgré tout un peu quelque part du GW. Je ne suis pas sûre d'être très claire mais je pense qu'en partant directmeent avec des noms originaux, tu fais déjà le premier pas pour t'éloigner des G-boys tandis en changeant après, ça risque de se voir davantage qu'avant, Tyr c'était Heero, etc.

... Very good point.

Putain j'ai cherché comment le dire en francais pendant une minute entière avant de laisser tomber. ca devient grave. XDDDD

merchi coupine. u.u

You're welcome (c'était une réflexion issue d'une expérience personnelle, en fait, lol). Et tu peux me répondre en anglais, tu sais ? :p C'est pas parce que je suis trop fainéante pour le faire moi-même que ça me gène de le lire ;)

Cela étant dit, je plussoie la fille qui dit que Duane (dont perso j'aime la sonnorité) est trop proche de Duo. Je risque d'avoir aussi du mal avec le nom du "substitue" de Wu Fei, c'est trop proche...

I have absolutely no opinion on the renaming thing. (If they're GW characters - I'm not sure if a name change [especially to names that similar to the original ones, with the same history, the same token Chinese guy, etc] and altering of a couple of details is enough to take that out of them.

But it might make your life harder in the editing process later when you need to take the details out (like Sister Helen, etc). So if you change their names now, and stop associating them with GW, maybe it'll add a layer to your original story, too, since you're no longer bound to the GW aspect of it. It might make the story richer. (Not that I know anything of your story... and I just now realize how awful I've made that sound. >_>; Didn't mean to. Love you!)

Baker.
(It adds a kitchen-savvy side dig to the girly first name.)

Duo's got a ponytail and a three day beard
YES.

I think it's okay to just rename them--as you get deeper into your story, the characters will acquire more and more original traits, it happens even with 'true' long fics, if the author has their own style, which you do.
As for the personalities, I know some published authors who use real people or celebrities or famous characters for the personalities of their own characters. I don't think it's something to be ashamed of, after all, there are many theories about 'personality types', just think of it as using a 'type'.

Honestly I think the GW boys are kinda already archtypes. The dark brooding hero or the jester with a dark past. Their types or personalities already appear in so much that if you use it as a basis I don't really think it is cheating. Especially since you said that there won't be any Mobile suits or anything. So I think if you kinda keep the basis of their personalities and add more layers like a different backstory and a few different tics and whatnot you should be fine.

Ooh sorry another thought. Think of it as the difference between inspiration and rippng off. You see a certain group of characters with distinct traits andyou are inspired. Ooh this group of personialities, with a bit of a different senerio can fit in this whole plot idea. That is inspiration as opposed to ripping off is when you see something and just rewrite it without changing a thing yanoo keeping the same kinda pasts but changing the names and keeping the same conflict and whatnot. So yea... Hopefully that was helpfull. I tend to ramble... And sorry for typos I wrote this on my phone -.-;;;

Seconded on this. The archetypal elements of (any) Gundam characters (from all series, really) are what make the Gundam franchise itself so long-lived. To make Gundam characters into original characters, just figure out what the archetype is and play off of that, and you're effectively creating a parallel-Heero, a parallel-Kira, etc. Take a look at Jung's Archetypes and you'll see each of the characters fits into a basic box. They're centuries old.

I think characters have a tendency to grow their own personalities when you give them their own names, so there's a chance that... Tyr, for example, will start out a lot like Heero and by virtue of being another person in your head actually evolve through various backstory things into a new person. I'd go with the change, myself. ^^

Oh, btw -- when it's a boy's name, the usual spelling is more common with an e: Tracey. That's not entirely formal, just something that seems to be more often than not. I think there are a few other names that have a variant like that, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is that Douglas is a boy's name, while the girl's name version is spelled Douglass. (That, incidentally, was originally a very popular girl's name, separate from the surname of Douglas, which is where the boy's name originated.) Oh, and another one: Frances for girl, Francis for boy.

Duane. You do know the whole thing about having Dwayne as your middle name, right? Means you'll end up a serial killer. (Ignoring that Duane is possibly one of the least-cool names I can imagine, a more mid-western version of the totally uncool Clarence and Eugene.) Duane is a plumber or electrician or mechanic by trade -- that should tell you something about the social class associated with that name.

Then again, you could go with something crazy like Zebediah, which gets Zed for short. Let's talk about social class, shall we? Heh. To replace Maxwell, if you want an Anglo background, just look at Irish and Scottish surnames. Or give him a Welsh surname and let his ancestors be miners in the Appalachians...

*shuts up now*

ohh, I'll add him an E, duane is gonna tease him more than enough as it is, no need to make it worse. :cackles: As for Frances and Francis, it took me a second to even realize they're supposed to be pronounced the same. In french we'd totally ignore the -es of the female name, so the two names seem totally unrelated to me. XD;

I never heard the middle name thing, but bwahaha, it's alright if Duane is so low-class, that's where he comes from. Wouldn't make sense to have him named something too cool, right? >:D (also i like the spelling. Dunno. It feels pretty to me.) I went with Keller as the last name, and then someone promptly pointed out "lol one letter off from killer" which, um, I'm sure he likes the coincidence so let's let him have it. XD; If I spend too long looking for the perfectiest perfect name I'll never write a thing.

Nooo don't shut up.

Are you doing nano this year? I miss your writing.

How do you say "duane" in french, what does your accent make it sound like? Because to my American (Southern) ears, it's a very dull sound, somewhat nasalized. It's halfway there, in that it's single-syllable, but it doesn't have any hard consonants. Like Wayne, it's more of a drawn-out low sound, which may be why I associate it with (and hollywood/TV reinforce this) people who aren't ambitious or even playful, but more low, kinda flat, and all the personality of wet bread dough, to be honest. Compare that to a name like Kip, or Tuck, or Nick, where there's a hard-K, one-syllable, strong sound.

Or just use Keller as his first name. Not sure if you're aware, but one tradition in the South is to name the first-born son after the mother's maiden name, which is how I had classmates named Douglas, Greer, and Leslie (all boys, btw). If you find a surname you like, that's one way to give him an unusual first name by using the surname, and might create some of his backstory hiding in there as well.

Although you could make his real name Duane and give him a nickname, but again, that name is awfully close to Duo, in terms of triggering reminders of original, which still is not so good.

(Btw, note that Duo works as strong name because the -o ending is open-jawed and thus tends to rise a bit before closing off, while the -ane ending on Duane goes from open to closed without variation. Okay, rather mangled way to describe how the sound works in English, ehhheh, but basically "dwayne" and "duane" are not even dipthongs, while "duo" is -- that is, you can hear both vowels in 'duo' while 'duane' is more precisely, vowel-wise, 'dwane'. It's not as strong as ending with consonant, but the dipthong in 'duo' is still a more emphatic sound than the lack of in 'duane'.

Trivia moment: this is where you get into triple and quadruple dipthongs, in which American English is apparently the only dialect in the world that uses them, or so I've been told by linguists. Duo, tripled, becomes something like due-uh-oo, where the first vowel sound is doubled, thus creating the triple. Or, if the accent is really strong, you get four syllables in there, because each vowel in the dipthong is further doubled: due-uh-oo-eh kind of thing. This is why my name, a single syllable hard-consonant name, actually has closer to three syllables and a false dipthong in its one vowel-sound, thanks to crazy Southern backwoods accents. Now! Don't you feel all smart, now?

One other thing to keep in mind: Tyr and Trace -- two hard-T sounds, one-syllable. Those will get confusing for readers pretty fast. I get what you mean about Tracey as a name defining a person's characteristics, but Tyr is an incredibly rare name. You'd end up with readers wondering more about back story than the character, because it'd be distracting at first, so I'd stick with Tracey and look for a non-T alternate for the primary character. Something still unique but maybe not quite so much, or at least not duplicatory with other characters.

(says the person who wrote and now has crystallized the character names of Mark and Spark, AAAUUUGGHHH I will never undo that one. GYAH.)

Nano... I've never actually done Nano, come to think of it. But I have been meaning to write a short story bouncing in my head. Hrmm.

Duane sounds soft and... suave (it *is* an english word too, right?) in French, which I like quite much in fact :p (unlike Kip or Tuck which sounds kind of... not real names or ridiculous ones ; first though would be "poor guys" and "what the parents were thinking??" but the goes too with names like Leslie for boys ^^; Poor guy. School must have been though, or would have been in France) but I'm with you about the maybe-be-too-much-closeness between Duo and Duane...

I like Keller very much, would make a great first name... Might not be easy to find a good surname to go with it, though...? (Or a Keller Mac Something maybe?)

You lost me with the dipthongs ^^; Sounds interesting, though, will re-read that part when I'm less sleepy.

Kip is actually a British nickname; Tuck is short for Tucker. (I think Kip is also a nickname for something, the way Trey is a nickname that indicates the kid is a III, eg John Brown the 3rd.) Those popped into my head first, but there's a variety of short, hard-sounding names: Mike, Mick, Deet (short for Dieter), Erik, Tom, Tate (another surname), Grant, Ken, Cade... I dunno, brain not working so good today.

Perhaps it's just that to American eyes, the name Duane has too many associations with lower-class, ill-educated, lazy drawled-sounding names that aren't sexy at all.

There's a babyname site online, erg, can't remember which one it is now. Babynameworld? Hrm. Whatever, but it's got this marvelous advanced search feature where you can search by number of syllables as well as starting consonant or sound, and ending consonant or sound, along with name's origins or meaning. I'd highly recommend playing with that site.

I've actually known several Kellers. It's a common name in the South, again with the first-name-as-surname. For that reason, you'll see it most often with a common British surname like Williams, Jones, Brown, Smith, etc. (Keller Williams, incidentally, is a really big realty company in the US, so you might want to avoid that combination.)

Dipthongs are when you combine two vowels to create a sound that's neither the first vowel nor the second. The french 'eu' is a dipthong, in that it's not an e-sound and it's not a true u-sound. Adding a w can sometimes create a dipthong, as in 'bawl', where the w changes the a into something more rounded. Every language has dipthongs in there somewhere, though some languages use a whole lotta them and some only use one or two, and other languages further complicate dipthongs (like English does) when you add in accents.

Leslie's a family name of mine, so I have cousins of both genders with that as a first name, too, though I have to say I've always regarded the use of "Les" as a nickname with some distrust. I mean, to basically be calling someone "less"? Sheesh. Then again, I've also known a Gayle (male!) and that was also an old family name, and I'm not sure if that's better or worse than my cousin's inherited name, of Alonzo. I mean, now that is old-fashioned. (No one calls him that. Ever.)

But then again, I almost got named Leroy, and maybe that's a fancy name in french but it's a name that'd get you beaten up during recess if you lived in the US. Snerk.

[kip, tuck: ah, I was thinking of Chip, which is an alternate nickname to Junior -- that is, what you call the younger of two in a family. As in, "chip off the old block". Very much a name associated with American all-around good kids who play touch football and like apple pie, that kind of good clean association. Tuck and Kip are definitely more Brit-names, and Trey is really unusual these days.]

Maybe your low class associations with Duane is a regional thing? Cause I'm from America and I don't have that association. If I really had to put an association with it I would be more of a person that works with their hands. A cow boy, mechanic or something like that.

Though I'm behind on looking at my live journal so this input is probably all a moot point.

Angel, rename them. break free them free of that mold early and let them grow :)

Tyr is nifty. Not so thrilled about Lowe, but meh :) Maybe go for something a bit more nordic sounding... you could adjust how he looks too if you wanted a little more space between Tyr and heero.. tall blonde... :D

I don't like Duane, but 'duane' or Dwaine or other varations on spelling are kinda a 'red neck' name to me... every Dwayne I know is an older guy who loves titties, beer n' Talladega (car racing) :p As for 'maxwell'.. maybe something simlar... Maxton, Martin, Marwent, Marshal, Marxton...

Tracy Bates is... interesting. there are a number of good "girly" names out there though. Chelsea, Ashley, Kelly, Lauren, Alex, Sasha, Leslie. Shannon, Lindsay, Robin, Courtney are all, I believe, names that used to be primarily name, but are often used for males now... or are used differently in different parts of the world (Kim, Sasha..)... as for last know.. Barns? I could go on like I did for 'maxwell' but I agree.. bates needs to go... it has too many 'poor' implicates to it...(Bates motel, anyone?)

Cameron Gabriel Wright is just beautiful. :) but I adore 'Gabe' as a name :D

Xiang Yu Wei is also good, I think. BUt: waht does it mean? make sure you're not accidentally giving him a name like "pathetic half tree" :D

Don't be afraid to break away from the show fully. I notice that alot of your names are... using he same letters... TB, DM.... C/QW... don't cling to it. let it go. Stop thikning of them as Heero and Quatre and they'll stop BEING Heero and Quatre. :D Change how they look, if it fits (give Quatre a little tail, instead of a short cut.. give trowa shoulder lengthed hair is hides behind some days, or a pair of sunglasses and a short hair cut. Give Duo something shorter, or no braid at all. Make it blonde, or black instead of brown. :)

In my opinion. there's no shame in 'cheating' in using the gundam boys as a basis for other characters. Just change them enough so that it's not obviously 'Duo with blonde hair'.... do that and I'm pretty sure they'll take off on their own. now.. someoem familiar with them who knws that you based them offo f the gboys might still beable to tell.. but anyone else who's not looking for it, probably won't have a clue. I have faith in you :D

Lowe is open for replacement, i'm not super attached to it, but unless someone gives me a new name it's gonna stay for now because otherwise I'm gonna waste another three hours googling for something better. :D;;

It's okay if Duane has a redneck name, that's where he's from. XD His last name is now Keller.

I went with Tracey Sorrano instead. Immigrant spanish parents who thought it was a good idea! and Sorrano is pretty ._. *shallow* No one calls him Tracey anyway but it's funny to me.

Xiang Yu Wei :
Xiang: From Chinese 翔 "to soar", 祥 "auspicious, lucky" or 香 "fragrant" (which is usually only feminine). It can also come from the name of the Xiang (湘) River in southern China.
Yu: From Chinese 玉 "jade", 愉 "happy, pleased" or 雨 "rain".
Wei: From Chinese 威 "power, strength", 巍 "towering, lofty" or 伟 "great, mighty".
I think his last name uses "to soar" and Yu Wei is Great Rain. I'm not sure it's super auspicious but... XD Though he might just be Wei instead of Yu Wei. *ponders*

I used the same first letters because I wasn't sure I'd be able to keep track of who's who otherwise (also because i wanted some sort of limit to impose on my name search or i could have spent all day at it DX), but in the end it's staying in my memory faster than I thought, so I might change some of them. I like Gabe's name though.

L names, if you went for the more Norsey-idea:

retrieved off of parenthood.com's advanced name search utility: Any gender Names, starting with L with a nordic orgin:

Leidolf - Wolf Descendant
Lodmund - Blood brother of Bjolf
Lodur - Giver of senses
Lidskjalf - Throne of Odin (Maybe a bit too hard to pronounce and a bit too ironic as far as meaning goes.)
Langley - Long wood/clearing
Leif - Descendant
Lund - Grove

there were others in the search, of course, but I didn't think you wanted any that meant goddess of lust (Lofn), God of destruction (loki), Sister of Otter (Lyngheid), Lawyer (Lagmann), or Song of Thorborn the feeble (Lambi)

As for Duane, okay. :D I jsut wanted to make sure you knew what sort of name it was XD it's a very very redneck name... though I think I may be a little biased.. I married a southern boy, you see.. and his middle name is Wayne. and his mother, god help me, always calls him by both his first and middle names. So, every day, multiple times that day, I hear in a horrific southern red neck drawl, that name. Or, well, close enough to it. Duane and wayne are only a sound or two apart... yeah. Like I said: Just as long as you know it and all of it's connontations (and the fact it aparently causes us girls in the south to cringe a little XD) then go for it :D it's not a bad name XD it's just not very... soft and suave (that is a word in english, by the way :D) it's more. .. beer gut and peanuts. XD Keller is an awesome last name :D

Tracey Sorrano... Y'know.. that just totally sold me on 'Tracey'. Good job! :D Those work together nicely, and it sounds purteh XD

*thumbs up* Xiang Wei or Xiang Yu Wei are awesome. :D and sorry if I'm being all pushy and stuff ;_; Some peopel woulcn't have given it any thought at all and just gone "this sounds chinese!" and yeah.. and with the whole... Chang Wu Fei and Xiang Yu Wei thing... yeah. XD

I still really adore Gabe's name myself. I insist you stick with it *nodnod*

Tracy Beckett?

Also...Tyr. Yay for Norse mythology XD

I'd just like to point out that a lot of the name associations (Dwayne/Bates = poor, redneck etc) theat people have mentioned here are not the same at all in other countries (I'm from Australia, and have lived six years in Britain).

Oh, of course they aren't the same all across the world... but... those of us in those areas are 'doing our part' to share how we perceive those sorts of names... especially since Duane is American.. IE, he had American parents, who would have looked at the names just like we are.

As for Bates... Bates doesn't have a 'poor, redneck' association... Bates was the last name of a character in a movie/book: Norman Bates from the 1960's film "Psycho" was an insane serial killer, who operated a hotel ("Bates Motel")... It's a perfectly legitimate name, just for some, they first remember the moving character. It'd be kind of like naming a kid Hannibal... It's a good name-- just... will remind people of Silence of the Lambs and such.

Of course! I was just saying because most of the people here seem to be American =)

And I forgot that "Duane" had American parents, so yeah. Makes sense. Also... I haven't watched Psycho. All I know about it is that it has the infamous "shower scene". XDD

I see that you've already started to use "Duane Keller," but Maxwell as a first name is perfectly acceptable in my part of the world. Like "Maxwell Keller."

I also agree with previous commentors that "Bates" is ugly and "Beckett" is awesome.

I don't want to use Maxwell, either as a first or last name. ^^;

Went with Sorrano instead. I was going with a B name because keeping the same initials made it easier for me to remember who is called what, but in the end it's sticking in my mind faster than I thought. ^^

I agree with renaming. ^^;; I don't often reply to yer posts but I love yer stories, so...

Well. Your Mermaids oFic is really sorta close to Naruto, a little. Sorta. A little. Just a pinch. I mean, Blue DOES have spiky hair and a quiets snark sort of the way you write Sasuke, and your mermaid does sort of make a glue between the boys a bit, and your scientist is a loud redhead with way too much energy for his own good.

...*cough*

Also, "Bates" creeps me out for a name, I'm sorry, it's that Psycho movie. Bates Motel, anyone...Brown, maybe, or Blythe. Or Benson. I like Benson.

yeah, but the mermaids characters are mostly using the same general archetypes, they're not half as close as this new nano thing -- Blue is closer to Hiei than to Sasuke or Heero, because he's not emotionless or trying to pretend he is, and he doesn't hate himself or act in self destructive ways, and he's real relaxed about sex XD Liadan is... Liadan, and Arun, okay he's like a geek teamwork!naruto, but considering teamwork!naruto isn't exactly what I'd call IC anyway... XD Arun's the one who needs working on the most, though, yeah. (I don't see sakura being the glue between sasuke and naruto much at all @_@ they'd have a crazyintense bond whether she's here or not, she just rounds out the angles a bit. blue and arun are never going to be that intense with each other.) I think the mermaids thing is mostly using a dynamic I like with girl / cranky wary boy/boyish friendly boy. A lot of my ot3s and ofic ideas have that pattern.

The new stuff though, with five guys at once? yeah, it's gonna be real hard to make it not GW anymore. XDDDD;;;;;;

Yeah, I changed Bates. Now it's Sorrano. XD I just found it pretty.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only