halp!

[askerian]

Halp me plz. I need to know why we use metal bullets and not wooden ones.

I'm vaguely aware that wood burns and splinters and all that, but I really need to know, in detail, why exactly we chose to go with metal for our bullets. Wiki has failed me. ;_____;

It's for the itasasu vampire fic. >_> I want to bullshit a good reason why Sasuke'd choose to use a crossbow and not a gun. (basically boils down to : crossbows are cooler. XD But I can still change it, it won't affect the story, it doesn't matter that much. I don't want him to use a crossbow if he could just get himself some wooden bullets. I bet they'd go faster than arrows. >_>;;; )



edit: ... wow. Thank you so much, people. *__* *rolls in shiny, shiny info*

I've got it figured out now, yay. ^___^

Comments

[monique-27.livejournal.com]

Well...one of the reasons must be production (time, value, etc.).

I imagine it must be much easier to pour vast quantities of hot metal into molds, cool them, pop them out, and wrap them up than to have to acquire wood, strip it and get into condition for shaping, then shape it into bullet form, etc. Also, if you mess up a wooden bullet, it's garbage, because, unlike metal, it can't just be melted and reused.

Hmm...I feel rather clever. *^.^*

[askerian]

Yeah, it makes sense ^^

... but it also means I'd have to have Sasuke use a gun, because in a world with vampires out in the open you can bet there would be people taking the pain of making those wooden bullets, even if they cost more in the end. XD

... MAYBE HE USES BOTH.

YEAH. HE TOTALLY DOES. *Has Decided* >O

[monique-27.livejournal.com]

YEEESSSSS!!!!! *thinks your decision is WIN*

*^.^*

[askerian]

oh man, he's a walking armory. XD Stakes, crossbow, gun, knives, silver cross, and I think he might even have holy water on him. XDDDD And then he's wearing the leather bike riding getup too... I'm wondering how he *moves*.

[monique-27.livejournal.com]

Like a Smexy God Beast, I imagine. *lusts on him so hard now, kthanx*

[askerian]

AHAHAHA. XDD

I'll post the first part in a little while, gotta read it again first ^^

[askerian]

XD; It's okay. I was supposed to finish the scene soon, but I got sidetracked. I'll finish it this afternoon hopefully.

^^ The prologue is under the vampirefic tag. *adds it to the post*

[askerian]

XD

Itachi uses a gun with silver bullets. Kills werewolves AND if you shoot enough times in someone's neck it counts as decapitation anyway. But he has vampire speed and strength to protect himself in case they get too close. A crossbow takes longer to recharge than a gun, so why would Sasuke waste his time? Humans are slower; i'd think he'd want to be as fast as possible to make sure he downs them before they're in tackling range...

... Though hey, maybe that's because a wooden bullet goes through too fast, and sometimes it doesn't kill the vampire. XD Whereas it's rare when a wooden shaft goes clean through, *and* fast enough to have no effect... *ponderponder* what do you think?

[askerian]

I think i'mma gonna make him use the crossbow from afar, and when he needs to be in close quarters, gun first and stake to finish them off. Crossbow doesn't recharge fast enough and there's probably the risk you might get it jostled and the shaft flying out. I'll just go the "wood bullets = not lethal and long-range enough to be worth a good crossbow" route, pretend the wooden bullets are just not enough wood to hurt a vampire enough... XD

... Oh hey also old vampires need the wood to STAY in their ribcage. A bullet might simply roll out once they decay, and then they'd just revive. *__*

[aishuu.livejournal.com]

Has some interesting information. (http://www.answers.com/topic/bullet?cat=biz-fin)

I would assume there's a couple reasons - one is production, another is history (remember, bullets used to be made out of those little round metal balls), and I think the most important is effectiveness.

Practise bullets: Made from lightweight materials like rubber, Wax, wood, plastic, or lightweight metal, practice bullets are intended for short-range target work, only. Because of their weight and low velocity, they have limited range.

[askerian]

bwee, shiny link! thank you ^^ *read read*

[meanne77.livejournal.com]

Parce que ça fait plus de dégats ? :D C'est plus lourd que le bois, ça fait donc plus de dommage. Mêmes raisons pour lesquelles les flèches ont une pointe en métal et pas juste une extrémité pointue.
C'est aussi plus facile à fabriquer, t'as un moule, tu fais fondre, tu coules, hop, près à l'emploi.
Mais vraiment, je pense que c'est avant tout une histoire de savoir ce qui va permettre de faire le plus mal (et d'être le plus meurtrier).

Je suis vraiment pas sûre que des balles en bois soient plus létales qu'une flèche ; j'en doute, même. Comme je disais, une flèche à une pointe en métal. Et pèse plus lourd donc plus de force destructrice (quand à la distance de portée, hum... franchement j'en sais rien ; d'un côté avec une flèche t'es limité par la force de traction que tu exerces sur ton arc, de l'autre, une balle en bois... ça me paraît être trop léger pour pouvoir aller bien loin tout en résistance à la détonation (sans se faire pulvériser))
Cherche peut-être les avantages/inconvénients arc/arbalete ?

[askerian]

Ouais mais c'est une UA où les vampires sont connus, alors l'armement aurait probablement évolué différemment... Même si des balles en bois sont moins pratiques, ils en utiliseraient quand même un peu, quitte à les payer plus cher... *réfléchit*

Le problème surtout c'est qu'un arc ou une arbalète c'est un seul coup à la fois. Tandis qu'un flingue, t'as la recharge-machin-bidule là. Au milieu d'une mêlée je pense qu'avoir plusieurs coups de prêt c'est quand même mieux. XD;;;

D'un autre côté peut-être qu'il utilise l'arbalète de loin et le flingue en combat un peu plus rapproché. Il les fout par terre et il les achève plus tard... Son but ce serait de garder ses distances mais ca se passe pas toujours comme ça... hm.

[meanne77.livejournal.com]

Hum, vérifie mais je crois qu'il existe un système de répétition aussi avec les arbalètes (peut-être pas aussi efficace qu'un flingue automatique, c'est clair, mais...)
Mais pourquoi tu tiens au bois, en fait ? ils utilisent quoi, dans tous ces films de vampires récents, Blade (mis à part un sabre chelou) et compagnie, là ? lol
Les balles en bois, j'y crois pas, ça me paraît pas crédible... (peut-être un système de balle en bois creuse avec du métal à l'intérieur pour alourdir le tout ? ^^;;; )

[askerian]

Parce que pour qu'un vampire reste cadavérisé, il y a trois méthodes, lui couper la tête, le brûler ou le pieu dans le coeur. Mais faut que le pieu soit en bois. Le métal, ils guérissent de suite. ^^; je me demandais si une balle en bois dans le coeur aurait le même effet, mais j'avaois pas pensé que le blem c'est qu'une fois qu'ils sont en cadavre, s'ils sont assez vieux pour redevenir un squelette ca veut dire que la balle va ressortir, et s'ils sont assez puissant ils peuvent revivre. Alors bon, arbalète. u.u

[yira-heerai.livejournal.com]

One thing to take into consideration is the gunpowder. Fire + wood = very very bad. I would guess that has something to do with it. But that would depend on what sort of crossbow you're wanting Sasuke to wield and how it works compared to a gun. If all else fails, he could always use both and have a preference for one over the other.

[askerian]

Yeah, i think i'm going to go with "uses both". I'll just have him use them for different ranges and situations. ^___^ thanks!

[yira-heerai.livejournal.com]

Glad to help :D

[kat-chan.livejournal.com]

The explosive force of the gunpowder is suck that a wooden bullet would likely splinter in the barrel, and even if it only cracked/split along the grain that would a) reduce the pressure behind the bullet dramatically reducing muzzle velocity, if not leaving the bullet in the barrel and b) would dramatically weaken the bullet, making it less effective.

The reason for this is that the grain of the wood is it's weak point, the separation between cellular layers. When there's an inequality of resistance to the applied force of the gases behind the bullet, this causes splitting, cracking and splintering. Likewise, if there were/are weaknesses in a metal bullet, it can cause failure of the bullet. But it's easier to control for this in metal, since metal doesn't have a cellular structure, among other reasons. The woods used in practice bullets are those with especially dense structures, and are therefore less prone to these issues. But you certainly would not be able to just grab the nearest pine or apple branch and just fashion bullets.

I hope this provides some help.

[askerian]

...

*marries you* ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥~

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

I suspect you could make BBs out of holly, then, as it's one of the harder wood (and it's what used to be used for arrows, too), or possibly for an airgun, where the propellant is air/gas?

Otherwise, excuse me while I melt all over the technical explanation. *lurve*

[kineko.livejournal.com]

Hmmm déjà vu que les balles sont propulsées avec la poudre, il risque d'y avoir un risque d'explosion ou d'inflammation. Ceci dit l'arbalète peut aussi servir de croix de fortune contre un vampire... Enfin, pour ce que Itachi s'en soucie...

[askerian]

Ca dépend du type de bois apparemment? >__>;;; *lit lit*

oh tiens le truc de croix de fortune j'y avais pas pensé... hmmm.

[the--ivorytower.livejournal.com]

It seems to have been covered, but I'm pretty sure that because of the way a gun firing works, the wooden bullet would explode inside the gun. Not helpful in any way. I know they tried to make a meat bullet on Mythbusters and it failed quite spectacularly.

[askerian]

That's what I thought too, but I found enough references that I know wooden bullets do exist, they're just not used very much. But whyyyyyyy I need to know whyyyyyy. ;_;

... Though I got a lot of info right now. Gotta let my brain absorb it. XD;;

[sister-dear.livejournal.com]

*wonders how they can even make wooden practice bullets.* I’d imagine the casing, at least, would still have to be metal.

You could also consider doing the Van Helsing thing: a crossbow with a revolver-like bolt casing attached = machine gun crossbow. He’s holding it on the splash page of the movie website: http://www.vanhelsingmovie.com/

[askerian]

Ohh. That's a pretty, pretty weapon.

... I kinda want Sasuke to have both gun and crossbow for this scene though, and he wouldn't need a gun with something like that...

... Oh hell, I'll pretend it was too expensive. Itachi can buy it for him later. XD It's too neat not to use. Thanks for the link! *__*

[ex-drakyn.livejournal.com]

What about wooden bullets with a metal (or some other material) back? Or bullets made of frozen holy water (I saw a CSI that had ice bullets, so cool)?
Or those hollow bullets that shatter inside people, they wouldn't kill a vampire, but they would probably do more damage.

[askerian]

Ice bullets don't work, they busted it on mythbusters, the bullets just evaporate before leaving the chamber. ^^;

Yeah, I'm thinking he'd probably use mean bullets either way. XD thanks for the suggestions!

[artimusdin.livejournal.com]

Why not blessed bullets? Get real bullets, get a cross/symbol of faith stamped on it and a priest to bless the items. And boom, instant holy symbol being shot out of a gun! ... though perhaps the gun should be blessed as well, for a redundancy.

[(Anonymous)]

How about holy water icicles? On of my teachers was mentioning that icicles are the best murder weapons because they melt, leaving no weapon and no finger prints (scary, scary teacher *shiver*) Add the 'holy' part and bang! Perfect staking weapon. Problem would be how to keep 'em from melting before use outside of white winters.... Hope that helps your plot bunnies.
A.S.

[askerian]

XD; aha. They might work, but way too complicated to carry around and handle. They'd eiter be slippery or stick to his hands... Fun to think about, though. ^^

[askerian]

Well, the arrow could be steel-tipped. >.> As long as the shaft penetrates after it, it doesn't matter.

Thanks for all the info ^^ I'm gonna go with arrows for long range and normal guns for mid-range and close-ish combat, since there's no need to recharge them every single time and if he ends up in a melee, he'll want to down as many enemies as he can as fast as possible, and hopefully finish them off or run away once he's safer. They're not going to heal instantly. (unless they're old vamps in which case he's fucked either way. oops. >_>;;; )

[icedark-elf.livejournal.com]

I doubt this is helpful, but a lot of times, in the older myths that I've read, you need the stake to pierce the heart and -stay- there because it bound the vampire to earth, and so kept him in the state of stillness that he is forced to take during the day while in his grave.

Of course, in those, stakes didn't kill said vampire. Only made him unresponsive. That's why you had to remove the head and burn the body. Then scatter the ashes at crossroads, so it couldn't pull itself back together. If someone pulled out the stake, it could reanimate.

*random information*

[askerian]

Yeah, figured out the "wooden shafts stay in ribcages better" bit higher up. ^^ That's definitely a good point in favor of crossbows.

[calliopel.livejournal.com]

Cela vient du fait que lorsque tu tire une balle, l'ogive est soumise à une forte chaleur et à une forte pression qui font que si elle était en bois elle serait déformée dès la sortie du canon et n'irait pas bien loin. Techniquement les ogives sont faites principalement en cuivre et en plomb et non en métal ferreux (pour éviter de bousiller le canon).

[(Anonymous)]

Un autre type de munition anti-vampire possible (j'ai pas testé moi-même), c'est la balle creuse remplie d'eau bénite ou de mercure (pour le poids) beni. Le principe de fonctionnement est le suivant: lorsque l'enveloppe de la balle rencontre une surface un peu dure (style un vampire), l'avant de la balle est freinée tandis que l'arrière non, d'où compression de l'ensemble. Or un liquide ça n'aime pas être comprimé, donc assez rapidement, on a l'effet "bombe à eau"; plein de "gouttes" qui partent dans tous les sens. Vu la vitesse, ça déchiquète les chairs et comme en plus c'est béni, ca (devrait) faire pas mal de dégat sur un vampire.

Pour les balles en bois, à part un chemisage en métal autour d'un coeur en bois taillée en pointe (dans le même style que les armor piercing) je vois pas.

Pokannicknow

[kiyakotari.livejournal.com]

In addition, even if you COULD get a wooden bullet to work effectively (eg: acquire and maintain high velocity at something more than point-blank range), the chances of it leaving behind debris in the barrel of the gun are very, very high. Ridiculously high. And if you have debris in the barrel, you either have to stop and clean it out in between shots (not practical in the extreme, especially in a combat situation) or your weapon is very likely to blow up in your face next time you fire it. Which is far from pleasant. And a good way to lose a hand.

So unless you're looking for an excuse to have Sasuke blow his own hand off...

On the other hand, ceramic bullets (fired at very high temperatures) work fine. But I doubt that will help you much, since it's more of a 'getting weapons past metal detectors' thing than a 'killing nightwalkers' thing.

Paintgun Anyone?

[purble.livejournal.com]

Wow. Just reading through the shiney (gotta love info that makes you drool), and now I got an itch to add.

You know the game paintball? What do you think of paintballs filled with holy water instead of paint? Splatter a vampire enough with holy balls (>_<'), it should hurt like a bitch, enough to provide a possibly helpful distraction.

Just a thought so Sasuke can have more toys to play with and assessorize.

Re: Paintgun Anyone?

[askerian]

Ohh, that would be nice. *__*

Not sure it's good for Sasuke though, because it would be more of a weapon to deter vampires from doing stupid things. It's more of a bodyguard or crowd control thing... The weapon of someone who wants them in pain so they can fear and respect him afterwards. Sasuke probably wants a weapon to drop them on the spot and KILLINATE. But i'm sure I can use it for other characters. Thanks for the suggestion! ^^