askerian: Serious Karkat in a red long-sleeved shirt (T7_Saku Long Way Home)
askerian ([personal profile] askerian) wrote2006-11-15 06:57 pm

(teamwork) author notes/ Sakura discussion

So I've received many comments about Teamwork!Sakura VS Canon!Sakura, some that I even sort of agree with. I already know how to fix her, or start to fix her, anyway! But it can't happen just yet, and in the meantime, she is still very much not post-timeskip!Sakura, and I can't just expect people to trust me for something like that. XD

So yay! TL;DR author notes ahoy. XD; Plz point out anything that isn't coherent with my explanations -- or heck, even anything that could be trimmed out to make it less OMG AN ESSAY YUCK ME NO READ.

Also, if you have anything to point out, or want to discuss characterization, please feel free, i'm open on the subject. u.u



Yeah, I'm aware that my Sakura is very much not current canon!Sakura. It bothers me, because I like kickass!determined!Sakura better than useless!unsure!weak!Sakura, and I'm having a hard time keeping Sakura's characterization consistent for my story. :sigh:

The problem is, in this world she doesn't have the same motivation.

In canon, suddenly Sasuke was gone on a quest to destroy his own soul; she had all the time in the world to think about what would happen to the boy she loved if they didn't get him back, and she was faced, rather brutally, with the fact that Naruto could not fix everything -- and especially with the fact that just because Naruto could perhaps fix most things, it didn't mean it was okay for her to use him to further HER goals, even if he got hurt in the process, instead of getting off her ass and doing it herself, or at least giving him a hand. And then Naruto was leaving with Jiraiya, Team Seven was exploding, and she needed to do something, and hey! Tsunade was there and Sakura had nothing to lose by asking.

In Teamwork, she barely had the time to realize that Sasuke was gone after rejecting her, and then Naruto was bringing him back. Sure, he brought back a Sasuke who was seriously unbalanced, and furious, and pretty close to hating the two of them forever, on top of a Sasuke who had months of hospital stay to look forward to. It took about three to four years for Team Seven to go back to their pre-Itachi camaraderie, and in the meantime there was uneasiness and resentment and confusion. But Sasuke was there, he wasn't gone, he was slowly getting better. And she was at a complete loss as to how to help him, because he didn't need saving, he didn't need physical fixing (well, not from her anyway), he needed healing of the soul, and he didn't want to be healed. She didn't NEED to become stronger right here and now, so she didn't seek out Tsunade. She worked on her skills on her own, with a few pointers from Kakashi and Shizune, maybe a little more motivated than before, and she tried to pretend that nothing within their team had changed. After all, Sasuke was still there, right?

Sure, Teamwork!Sakura wants to improve, but it's mostly for herself and to improve her self-respect; it isn't to bring back Sasuke like in canon, because Naruto already did that. And it's been proven many times that she doesn't have Naruto's drive and even less Sasuke's obsession; simply wanting to be stronger isn't reason enough for her. Her teammates, and presumably her friends and family, would be reason enough... if they had the good sense to put themselves in the kind of danger that Naruto and Sasuke wouldn't fix in two days, without bothering to wait for her.

She only progressed so fast during the Timeskip because she was totally on her own and it was... not "do or die", but close (that and Tsunade gave her exactly the kind of training she needed -- not to badmouth Kakashi but he really didn't take care of her specific needs all that well); Teamwork!Naruto and Sasuke have the best intentions in the world when they protect her, and she wouldn't throw away their support for anything, but they've been stifling her growth. But seeing how much it would hurt her to be separated from them, especially since she has never wanted to be strong just for the sake of being strong, I think she'd rather progress more slowly and stay with them, even if sometimes it chafes a bit.

But damn, it's hard to juggle the two versions sometimes. I have to check all the time that I'm not leaving her at the exact same place she was at twelve, or that I'm not going too fast and making her badass like her Timeskip self without enough justification (and then there's the pregnancy hormones and mood swings to balance too -- and I know it's still too early for a normal pregnancy, but hers isn't what I'd call normal. She'll be lucky if she stops getting morning sickness by her fifth month, for example.)

So dude. I KNOW she's not as cool and badass as manga!Sakura. She can't realistically be. She has no reason to just yet. I'm going to fix that, in a manner that works with the Teamwork universe. I hope it will work. But in the meantime you will have to trust me, and tolerate weaker!Sakura a little while longer.

I'm counting on all of you to tell me if I'm going too fast or too slowly with her growth, please. My ego is fine, and I know I'm not bad at this writing thing, but I know I'm certainly not perfect either. I won't get better if I don't know where the problems are. I don't need you to give me "oh, no, she's in character!" comments if you don't honestly think that she is, for this setting; I can't feel her POV as well as I feel Sasuke's, and I very much need people to spot for me on that.

Hell, I can't feel Naruto's POV as well as Sasuke's either, and sometimes it seriously bugs me. Hnngh. I have a feeling I tend to make Naruto way too cool, and while I like him being cool sometimes, well... it's not very IC either.

Also, I definitely should have more Kyuubi and Inner Sakura cameos. :prods muses: Gimme funny-growly, you.

(Anonymous) 2006-11-15 06:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, Teamwork Sakura must be bitch to write when we all want her to be her big bad new self, goddamn it Kishi give her something good to do post timeskip or I'll skin someone.

What if Naruto starts having problems with the Kyuubi burning out his body or Sasuke has problems resisting the seal, could she find a reason to bump up her medical training if only so that they'll always have a top notch mednin with them at all times? Would that be life or death? If they were threatened with execution or exile if they didn't find a way to leash their darker sides that didn't include actual chains? Or if the baby needed a full time doctor during it's childhood to help it control the unsealed Kyuubi chakra, or contamination from the heaven seal? And she just couldn't trust anyone except the Hokage to do it without 'accidently' harming her baby? You know mother hormones kicking in majorly. 'Cause you know the Hokage can't be expected to drop Konoha just because the kid has a break out. Oo, baby can't go to school unless someone's controlling its chakra surges, and noone wants the Kyuubi to be closer to the baby than it has to be and Sasuke just can't be the siphon, but Mummy can! Mothers will do anything for their babies.

I'm gonna stop 'cause I'm spirling into the far future which doesn't help much. Otherwise I really want Sakura to go kickass too, 'cause then she'll get the good stuff from Sasuke. Maybe the baby will fufil her 'I need to be loved' problem and then she'll stop hanging over Sasuke, oooo Sasuke jealous of the baby! Just a little *slaps self*, signing off and shutting up.

(Anonymous) 2006-11-15 07:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Crap even as anoynme I'm recognisable. And there is no confirmation of a girl baby? but just think of all the neat things you could do with a daddy Sasuke who has a little girl who wants to wear ribbons. On her kunai. *nark*

(Anonymous) 2006-11-15 07:37 pm (UTC)(link)
What about a mother's desire to protect her child? Naruto's got quite an investment in this baby, so it's not completely unreasonable that an unnamed organization wouldn't try to steal away/harm the baby just to get to him.

[identity profile] slamu.livejournal.com 2006-11-15 08:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm guessing a general state of emergency wouldn't help. Would an outside stimulus be motivation enough, or does this all need to be Sakura deciding that she needs to get stronger?
Rescue Naruto mission? Was kidnapped by Akatsuki, and now Shikamaru, Kiba, Chouji, Sasuke, Neji and Akamaru left to rescue him. Something happens, and now they have delayed the inevitable for 3 years, Sakura decides that she desperatly needs to get stronger. After training with (pick a Sannin) for 2 1/2 years, she returns to Konoha badass-er than ever before! Oh, and the kid was staying with the Yamanikas.
No? Good. that would be too cheesy.
But seriously, diplomatic tensions with (rival village), war on the horizen, people mobilizing, need for more medics, something like that?
As for Naruto, why is he only hanging out with his team? Yes, it's his team, and he's sleeping with over half of them, but in canon there were other people he talked to. Here he might run into Jariya, or steal something from the Hokage's office, but outside that? Sakura stayed with the Yamanikas, Sasuke has to be forced to assosiate with anyone (himself included), but Naruto ate out at Ichiraku's with Iruka, he and Shikamaru went to visit Chouji in the hospital, he played ninja with the Konohamaru corps. Where are these people?
As for Inner Sakura/Kyuubi, would Kyuubi be in her head? There was something mentioned about it early on but I don't recall what the explanation was.
Inner Sakura says whatever Sakura is thinking but is too nice (constrained by society) to say. I don't remember where I was going with that.

[identity profile] silverkiiri.livejournal.com 2006-11-15 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I never really thought about it. It just worked and fit and I never needed specific reasons. I'm like that with a lot of things. I get feelings, undercurrents, but no real way of expressing it. What you said, it makes sense. This is a very different world than canon. And... I like it and I think it works wonderfully. ^_^ So.

Also...
And it's been proved many times that she doesn't have Naruto's drive</>
Might should be changed to "proven"? Otherwise, didn't see anything out of the ordinary. /hug

(Anonymous) 2006-11-15 10:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I think what bothers me the most about it is that since you portray Sakura pretty consistently as NOT being Naruto and Sasuke's equal. And both of them KNOW it. Even Naruto, who protests her weakness, knows it.

Yet she's the one carrying their child. So both the boys being "above" her, while she mothers them, essentially makes her the barefoot and pregnant housewifey. That's something I think that even pre-timeskip!Sakura would not be happy with. Before Sasuke left she still had her moments of truth during the Chuunin exams, right? She's not Naruto, but she has been shown as wanting to improve herself beyond the context of saving Sasuke's ass.

Essentially, the inequality between the characters makes the whole threesome relationship seem rather unhealthy to me. This may possibly be because you're a better at depicturing the SasuNaru bond than the NaruSaku and SasuSaku bonds. And I don't mean that as an insult - you write wonderful NaruSasu, and I think that you have a lot more practice with writing it than you do the het portions of your threesome.

I hope you're not offended by this post, but I like your writing enough that I really hope you can turn things around. You don't seem like a Sakura-hater, and I don't think that what I'm getting from Teamwork is what you're trying to portray, at all. I'm also aware that a lot of your readership has a different opinion of this than I do.

[identity profile] kalilung.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 02:17 am (UTC)(link)
XD Sorry. I must come off as an impatient prat.

That said, ganbarre yo! Keep up the delicious, delicious fanfiction. <3

[identity profile] bootoye.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 02:23 am (UTC)(link)
I think that any development that you give Sakura should flow smoothly with her Teamwork!character.

You say she does not have the motivation of the post-time skip Sakura but I think I see it differently.

*She might die* and *she has an unborn baby to protect*.

I have seen people that I know make drastic changes in their lifestyles for similar reasons.
You would be amazed that a cancer diagnosis or diabetes diagnosis gets lazy over-eaters slim and trim and healthy in a matter of months.

Sakura has her inner self that could be a good source of strength as she goes through her first trimester.

From what we have seen of Naruto's training regime in the manga, it is possible for a ninja to undergo a very rigorous training programme and achieve results in a short time period (Lee does not have as much chakra as Sakura, but his stamina is great!). I think that you can realistically speed up Sakura's progress and keep her IC for this universe.^^

Call me optimistic!
ext_2686: (Muppets - the count von count)

[identity profile] stripedpetunia.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 04:26 am (UTC)(link)
Kickass!Sakura is one of my favourite things ever, and I understand that based on how and when you started Teamwork and the fact that you're totally AU now regardless of how you try, your characterization has to take its own time. I heart your characterizations in your writing a lot and I trust that you'll get there because you love her too. :DDD Don't force it; if you have a plotline then hurrah, but yeah, take your time or it'll be ruined or something. XD;

As for concrit, I think that maybe more instances of Inner Sakura now will make the transition easier to swallow in Teamwork (as opposed to in the canon where it was all 'well it's been so long, she must be different! :D?'), because it's kinda like Inner Sakura helps form Badass Outer Sakura, isn't it?

Faito~~

[identity profile] nothri.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 01:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Your reasoning is sound. I think you crafted the best story you were able to at the time you began writing, and you made a basic prediction about the path of the story that was reasonable but turned out wrong. By the time it became clear that Sasuke wasn't coming back you were already too far into teamwork to stop. But overall you made perfectly reasonable characterizations based on what we knew at the time, and as far as that goes you've been true to the characters, seemingly painstakingly so based on my first impression of teamwork.

Also- if you plan to "level up" Sakura at some point, could you do us all a favor and give him some *real* Taijutsu training? Hell, Tsunade wants her to train her body anyway, so maybe Lee could teach her some things (Gai's course always strikes me as the best, and most demanding, way to get in shape in Konoha). I'm just....this whole "medical nins belong on the sidelines, so you only get to learn how to dodge" crap annoys me. She has a jutsu technique that would make her an absolute terror in a fist fight, but she still gets regulated to the sideline because she's a girl and apparently girls aren't allowed to kick more ass than the guys in Naruto.

Ahem...sorry. Ranting...yes. Thank you for the insight into Sakura's character. I think you do her lots of justice. Looking forward to more.

[identity profile] trishalynn.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 02:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not your regular Naruto-reading fan. I haven't watched any of the episodes since the first story arc with the Mist ninja and I am opposed to watching fansubs once the series is announced in my home country.

In fact, I willingly spoiled myself on the events in the manga and anime just so I could read fics like yours and [livejournal.com profile] jbmcdragon (who archived the original Teamwork and part of Teamwork 2, so she's the one you have to thank for me reading your stories) and I'm definitely not reading the manga now, so I have no idea what post-Timeskip characters are like. Frankly, I like the idea that Sasuke didn't betray everyone and Naruto did bring him back safely and he and Naruto (and Sakura) will get rid of Itachi on their own as a team, etc.

So in other words, from a total outsider's perspective, I think you're doing just fine in characterization because you've made it work for you and you thought it out. A lot of writers don't go through that kind of examination of their characters and it's good to know that you do. I like Sakura the way she is and I think she's a great AU character.

Hope this helps.

[identity profile] trishalynn.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 03:00 pm (UTC)(link)
YAY! SIDEFICS!!!

Honestly, reading and re-reading your sidefics over and over is the only way I can keep sane between updates. I itched so much for more Teamwork 2 that I read all of the Narto-based stuff on all of the linked sites on your sidebar. Yes, even that kinda creepy Lace and Strawberries one. And the long drabble for des? Yeah, gotta find that again so I can read it again, too.

[identity profile] trishalynn.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 06:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Just so you know, I'm sure that if I'd been reading/watching right there along with you, it would have made sense to me, too. As it is, there's so much out there and I'm such a poor fan that the only way I'd be able to dig on this series the way I should would be if someone were to "gift" me with the uncut DVD sets or I found them for real cheap. There are some shows that are worth buying and I think this is one of them.

However, since FMA is shorter, I think I need to buy that one first.

[identity profile] trishalynn.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 06:50 pm (UTC)(link)
You know, I was just about to say that. I remember you saying something about Kyuubi getting his ass spanked by Kiba's mom (which in my mind's eye, rightfully takes place after the events in "Foxplay" because that makes sense to me) and having him meet Inner Sakura would be more of that same kind of awesomeness and be one of those things that elevates her from being Pink Slut to Mother-Of-My-Cubs.

InoShikaTem?

[identity profile] slamu.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 08:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Ahh... length considerations. Makes sense.
Are the Chunnin Exams going to be held in Suna this rotation? I can imagine Naruto complaining about how the sand gets EVERYWHERE, and that there might be a bit more friction tonight (and Sakura and Sasuke ignore him)
I hadn't considered the policemen. They are probably the closest thing Sasuke has left of his old family. (With one trifling exception, of course)
Yes, I see. Thank you.

Naruto and the Inuzuka. A match made in some sugar-induced hell. ^^; Hinata has to be there: She's the calming influence on both of them. *nods vigorously*

ShikaTem?

[identity profile] slamu.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 10:22 pm (UTC)(link)
And it's hot. And there is sand in his Ramen. And these morons have no idea how to treat a visitor from an allied village. And there is sand in his shorts. and his ramen. Is Gaara Kazekage? I suppose that might be the test: Whoever can survive 15 minutes with the Kazekage moves on. Wait, there might be diplomatic reprecussions. Suna's version of the Forest of Death? 40 acres of parched desert, the only moisture around is guarded by hyper poisonous snakes with a bad temper, not a scrap of shelter and only a few places to hide. Better than any wall: Walls can give shade.
Uh... you're welcome? Whatever works I suppose. (Anything to help Asuka-sempai!) He's too proud to ask for stories of his family, isn't he?
Thank You! *snuggles* Wait... when did they find out? And wouldn't she have a clue from the incedent with him curling up on her lap?

Yes. Yes it is.

[identity profile] slamu.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 10:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay. that will do him good. His teammates can't be the only ones prying out of his shell.
Ugh, rewriting. The fear of it keeps me from doing...something, I'm sure.
Still, that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying
ext_2686: (I'd hit it)

[identity profile] stripedpetunia.livejournal.com 2006-11-16 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I am hereby casting 80 million votes for Kyuubi/Inner Sakura fic. *.*

[identity profile] muffytaj.livejournal.com 2006-11-17 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
What bothered me about your Sakura was, as the other person said, how she is seen as the weakest link all around. And kick butt Sakura is my favourite Sakura *grins*

Plus, sometimes it feels a bit like you're writing SasuNaru with a Sakura added too, as opposed to a complete threesome but, given that you find those two easier to write, that's to be expected :p

But I would like to see more Inner Sakura, and for Sakura to have more fire in her, instead of moping. Maybe from some external threat, or just because her baby protection hormones are kicking in. Or her getting some making out time too.

But hey, I know you're gonna lead us somewhere great, and I'm more than happy to see where you take us *grins*

(Anonymous) 2006-11-17 09:18 am (UTC)(link)
I'm with Muffytaj, more make out time or just getting along well time for her and Sasuke that we can see. Damn Naruto's POV for the dojo scene!
Sometimes it does seem that it's more SasuNaru oh look Sakura too. But I think the problem is that her scenes with Sasuke are always short or only half-seen. Also Sasuke does need to be pushed a little and he likes people who can take a bit of rough handling emotionally speaking, cause he just can't kid glove people all the time, and Sakura just doesn't do that. Even if she did work up enough guts to go demanding on him I'm not sure she'd be happy with something that she felt she had to rip out of him kicking and screaming. She wants the romantic love that is shown easily by touches and hand holding. The kind she gets from Naruto. Ah sigh, young love, so difficult.

(Anonymous) 2006-11-17 09:20 am (UTC)(link)
Ooo forgot to add her interaction with Naruto is great though, it's nice to see that he really does want her as well. It's probably what missing for me from the SasuSaku side.

(Anonymous) 2006-11-17 10:41 am (UTC)(link)
I'm glad to hear that. I think [livejournal.com profile] muffytaj put it well when she said that sometimes the fic feels like SasuNaru with Sakura added in. That's what I was trying - poorly - to get at with the barefoot-and-pregannt commment. It's like, Sasnaru and oh look Sakura is giving them a baby.

It might help make things feel more like a true threesome, if the SasuSaku bonding scenes weren't always from Naruto's POV? Whenever we see Sasuke accomodate Sakura there's very little indication as to why he does so.

[identity profile] acechan.livejournal.com 2006-11-18 06:45 am (UTC)(link)
I felt I should mention that I think you've been doing fine, too. Yes, it seems like Sakura's characterization slides a little back-and-forth sometimes, and also like the threesome interaction is pretty unbalanced right now. But the thing is, considering that all three characters have basically been falling from crisis to crisis with barely time to breathe ever since Teamwork 1 began, and that Sakura in particularhas been having hormone fluctuations as well as possibly the biggest adjustment to her worldview with the whole "threesome" thing, it makes perfect sense that that would be the case. It's going to take a while before things slow down enough for them to really sit down and feel things out about their relationship, and for Sakura herself to be able to sit down and think about what kind of person she wants--and needs--to be (even though she's already realized that she needs to start changing). I'm not sure if any of this makes sense (especially since I just got home from a very long, brain-frying work shift), but I though you might like to know that one of the scenes I thought worked best to show Sakura both as a person and as a potentially very strong part of the threesome was the part a while back when she was fighting with Sasuke because of how frustrated she was over her training.

[identity profile] bootoye.livejournal.com 2006-11-20 12:03 am (UTC)(link)
OOOH OOH oh!! I want to read the kyuu/InnerSaku ficlet!!! We already had Kyuu/Sasuke and it worked out great!!!^^

I will wait in anticipation!! (If I hold my breath will I still be alive?)

[identity profile] sienna-maiu.livejournal.com 2006-12-11 02:11 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, I'll admit that I'm a bit of a canonwhore, so when I first read that bit about Sakura being under Shizune's tutaledge I was actually upset and couldn't bare to pick it up again for several weeks (although there most likely were other reasons...)
But I'm thinking that if you somehow used the intense training she'll need to your advantage...

Although this was all yesterday when I wasn't signed into my own computer and couldn't remember my password, so since then you've add Chapter 6.gazillian, meaning of course that that particular option is dashed, oh well.

Anyways... I'm sure you'll make Sakura just as awesome as she is currently.