askerian | naruto teams ramblings (also kinda sorta maybe a little ep 175)

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naruto teams ramblings (also kinda sorta maybe a little ep 175)

This is a rambling and not a rant because I'm not sure I'm making any sort of point -- it's just babbling about my thoughts. u_u;;

Okay, first off, if you haven't downloaded the latest Naruto ep yet... My humble opinion is that it's blah and uninspired. Not HORRIBLE, but... mediocre. Nothing made me scream (the art wasn't very good sometimes, but ehh), but I was so bored. =_=; (also what the fuck is it with their obsession with shoving Hinata and Naruto into the same team. There are other characters damn it, stop pushing for NaruHina moments)

The one thing I thought canon-ish was that Kiba and Naruto kept fighting to lead the team. Not that the rest was blatant fanon, or worse, total OOC/Did You Even Watch The Show -- but it was also very generic, if that makes sense. So they do this, and then they do that -- nothing special. After the Sea Monster arc, I was expecting a little better -- some scope, a feeling that they were doing something mildly important. It didn't happen. It felt about as plotful as a one-shot ep. Maybe it will change, next ep, but. Blah. I don't like the main gimmick so I doubt I'll enjoy it.

With thanks to

theninjakitty for allowing me to ramble at her and sharing her own opinions^^

In this arc, the temporary team is Kiba, Hinata and Naruto. No team leader, and more importantly no Shino. The very idea makes me cringe. If there's one team that I can't see working ... XD

I don't think Naruto or Kiba makes a good team leader so long as the other one's around -- they compete over everything, and not in a good way. They bicker, they don't try to work together -- I can see them so eager to prove themselves as the alpha male that they will disregard each other's opinion on the basis that it's the other guy's opinion. Kiba is slightly more mature in general, but around Naruto, eventually, that maturity tends to get blasted out of the window.

They haven't been teamed up enough to learn to balance. In team 8, Shino is level-headed, and he knows to pay attention to what Hinata can see or what she thinks, so he makes a better leader when they have to be discreet. Kiba is brash and powerful and aggressive, which makes him good in all-out conflict. Shino and Kiba know how to defer to each other when they're in each other's field of expertise.

Naruto and Kiba... nope, doesn't work. Naruto's too prideful to admit that Kiba would know better than him at anything, and as Kitty says, "Kiba wouldn't back down and allow Naruto the alpha position."

Naruto and Kiba both fit the "brawler" bill; I see Enemy, I Smash Enemy. They both can be rather calculating when they really need to be, though it's not usually their choice -- but when it's about showing the other up? Hah.

If the third member was Shino, it would work -- he would just tell them clearly to stop being children and if need be, take control. But Hinata can't stand up to either Naruto or Kiba; she's a follower, not team leader material. (

theninjakitty: "too much brash masculinity running around for the shy girl" :p)

In the episode, I thought it fairly IC that she SAW a flash of something, but the other two were too busy fighting to notice her reaction, and then she had to run after them to catch up and didn't dare bring it up at all. She has awesome abilities, but she has to be encouraged, flattered, otherwise she doesn't dare use them. And when Kiba and Naruto are around each other, they're too busy squabbling and yelling and posturing to even notice her, except maybe as another bone of contention. Separately, they would be physically protective of her; but not together.

Shino is more considerate of her. He pauses to ask for her opinion, and never gets so busy bragging about his own abilities that he forgets to ask her to use her own for the good of the team. He takes the time to nurture her self confidence. Kiba is more physically protective of her, though he admits readily and with much pride that she can fight when she needs to. Kiba and Shino, while both suited to be team leader at all times, seem to take turns in leadership, and they are united in their desire to shield and nurture Hinata's growth.

*waves shinohinakiba flag* That's one threesome where I don't see the male/male at all, but allied to protect hinata? OH YEAH. (also they read so straight to my gaydar XD especially kiba) I can see each one giving her up to the other, in a "I know you love her and she could be happy with you" way. And then they'd fight over it. XD Kiba would yell obscenities -- "JUST FUCKING TAKE HER AND MAKE HER HAPPY GODDAMN IT" and Shino would be all "No. All analyses point that you would be best suited. My way or the highway." It would be so fun. XD ~~oh goddamn it I'm getting bunnies.~~

Their dynamic is very very different from Team Seven. We haven't seen Team7 without Kakashi to act as a leader all that much, but there are definite differences, however similar Naruto/Kiba and even Shino/Sasuke might appear on the surface.

Sakura at least would impose her views better, even though she would probably end up aligning her positions onto Sasuke's. But then she doesn't have Hinata's huge natural advantages -- mostly the boys tend to share the fighting between them and leave her in the dust. u_u; (though that dynamic would probably change with post-timeskip Sakura. mmm.)

Sasuke would make an okay leader -- cool-headed and calculating ahead, most of the time -- but he tends to fly solo, he's not that good with fighting in a team.

As for Naruto... As he has demonstrated a few times, he CAN plan ahead, but he rarely fights in tandem with Sasuke or even with Sakura, not that we've seen. (though Sasuke and Naruto will band together seamlessly if they really, really have to)

Anyway, team Seven doesn't seem to have been built for tracking like team Eight; it's mostly comprised of two powerhouses who more often than not end up fighting in solo, or at best in relay. They're more of a frontal assault kind of team in the end. (which is why even without Tsunade it would have made sense to make Sakura a field medic at least, since she's never going to have Naruto's raw power or Sasuke's array of techniques and talent; but we didn't get to see any of her own decision to become a healer, it seemed to be thrust upon her because she had the fine chakra manipulation ability and Tsunade wanted to pass down all of her stuff. All Sakura asked for was to be made kick-ass so she could keep up, really. Hnn. That's some opportunity for character growth wasted, that. Not everything Sakura-as-a-ninja is should come from Tsunade -- but that's a different rant)

Team ten's (InoShikaCho) leadership is. Hah. Well, now that Shika is a Chuunin, it seems to fall to him, but somehow it doesn't feel like that's always the case. Shikamaru is a great leader, tactically speaking. Chouji is a loyal follower, hopelessly devoted, so not leader material. Ino is impulsive and probably doesn't plan well -- not compared to Shika anyway. But she has motivation, which Shika often doesn't. In short, Shika is the brain, Chouji the muscles and Ino the foot up their ass. XD

Somehow, though, they fit so well as a team. Even though separately they're not that strong, and they're, frankly, one-trick ponies, as a team they work like a well-oiled machine. They trust each other and they're used to knowing what the others will do and how best to help them. Of course it helps that they probably all knew each other from childhood, and that their parents are friends; Ino, Shikamaru and Chouji aren't professional in any way together. Team10 is very close in a way that makes them family.

I don't see that kind of closeness between the members of team Gai.
Lee and Neji have this polite distant rivalry, which seems to have been born mostly because Lee and Gai felt that it was important for Lee to have a rival to measure himself again. It's almost a professional relationship, not really personal -- nothing as passionate and confusing as the naru/sasu friendship/jealousy/rivalry/lovehate. And Tenten, sort of Sakura, is the cheerful supporting cast -- knocks some sense into Lee's head, but likes him openly too, and admires Neji's talent, but not to fangirly heights. She seems a hard-working sort, cheerful and competent; some talent maybe, but not a genius. And no real depth to speak of. We don't know much about her motives, or her friends and family, or her past. Their dynamics are like a milder version of team Seven.

... and... I'm not sure where I was going with that. So. XD

Some of these characters, as good friends as they are, will never ever work as part of another team than theirs. And while there seems to be a pattern at first glance -- the (HotHeaded) Brawler, the Cool Tactician and the ~~supporting cast~~ Girl -- it's really only in surface that the teams are identical.

And there are combinations that should never, ever be attempted unless there is extreme necessity -- they can all band together under stress, but as a functioning team for any length of time, huh.

Thank god the fillers are almost over. Five week, people. We can do it.

[/two cents]

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This is all really great. You've definitely got a good bead on the teams and how they work.

Haha, Team assignments that shouldn't happen. Naruto, Kiba and Ino. I'd have to wonder if /anything/ would get done.

Psst, might it be okay to have your aim... if you have it? ^^; I'd love to chat sometime

NaruKibaIno?

They'd have sex.

Yeah.

Sure ^^ AIM's the same as lj name -- askerian. Gotta warn you though, right now i've got a headache and am thinking of going to bed. i'm not going to be extraordinarily articulate.

Actaully I've seen a drabble where this threesome WORKED... http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2721219/5/ (drabble 16 comparing them and 21)

wow. that #21...

truthfully, they should have put Ino, Neji or TenTen or some other "i'll shove my boot up you're sorry butt if you don't stop fighting" person on the team for 175.

yeah. -__-;; they had no one to rein the raging alpha male posturing in. And I agree with you on the genin/teacher duo missions and the no-teacher missions. What the Fuck. Okay maybe I could accept that they don't seem to have many jounins free at the time due to too much work and not enough staff, but you'd think they would make more of an issue out of it. argh.

Hell, even after they become chuunin and jounin, they have the ability to stick with their old teams -- Lee and Tenten are chuunin post-timeskip, and Neji is a Jounin -- and they're still hanging out with Gai. And Kakashi climbed ranks so fast, and yet he still took missions with Rin and Obito and the Fourth -- and yet that was in the middle of an all-out war, where the resources would have been spread so much thinner.

thank you #^^# ~~but seriously I can rant a lot longer XD~~

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Yeah, the girls tend to be more unique -- mostly because there are less of them, so there aren't as many chances to make them more similar. u_u; (not sure i make sense, argh)

^__^ heh. Hinata really could grow into an awesome leader -- fair, compassionate and yet still firm. If she's not beaten down every time she tries to evolve.

I still somewhat think she'd be more suited to clan head than fighting team leader. XD

ooo. You make a lot of good points. Kind of makes you think how team dynamics from other countries work. it could just be a Konoha thing, but that's hard to tell, considering the perspective. We've seen a LITTLE from mist, some from Sand,(^o^) and eh. a hint from Sound, if that counts. since Sound is just one place with no real country of its own...i unno. Sound seems to be more of the dregs of Society(not skill, otherwise WHYYYY SASUKE.) but anyway.

It seems to me(with what very little i've seen, i'm sorry if i blather like some kinda moron) that Konohagakure is unique, in that it promotes working together on more than just one (professional) basis. Konoha seems to be the binding point for the rest of the countries(well..yeah. otherwise how would Naruto meet up with OMG GAARA) on a political basis as well.

point(gawd, i had one?! wtf.) is, team dynamics are closely knitted and everchanging in the teams because the Ninja in those teams are supposed to work together, as opposed to working to make a name for oneself. soloing like that makes a few things: Itachi (brrr), psycho-child-molesters, and dead people (Zabuza whut).

Squark.

Mist? *blink* Maybe i'm braindead, but I can't remember Mist teams x_x;; (Haku and Zabuza aren'ta team, and the three pyjama/mask freaks in the exams were all too similar to tell usmuch about their dynamics, as far as I remember. o_o

the only Sand genin team we've seen is Gaara's and they're really abnormal; they're siblings, they probably haven't graduated at the academy at the same time, and they're all way too high level for genins -- I don't remember where I heard that they should have been chuunin already, but they were held back because the Sand needed them for the plan against Konoha. Besides, Gaara. Yep,not a typical team here.

Hee! your point makes sense XD

Hee~

*waves ShinoHinaKiba flag with you*

Your rants are oddly helpful for insight to the characters. XD I need to write ShinoHinaKiba for thirtyforthree and Im sitting here going 'well, this is good, this is good'. Haha~

Five weeks... five weeks. Gah, I dont think I can do it *wibbles*

#.____.#

hee! I might need to check the ones you've already written. (you did write a few right? maybe i shouldn't have taken the comm off my friendslist when i dropped my claim x_x;)

you can!! you're strong!!

... I wonder if they'll replace naruto's voice actress ;_; he's supposed to sound older, i hope she can do it and they won't think he needs a change ;_;

Yeah, I've written two so far... this month, actually. ^^ Im working on the third. Eh... unlike you, I struggle to write lengthy things, though -__-; Aa, its a fun community to watch (theres so much crack in the Naruto fandom!).

Im trying!

They cant replace Junko. That wouldnt be right (shes so cute!). D: I'd protest

i really doubt they'll replace her. ^^ i watched sailor moon when i was younger, they kept Kotono Mitsuishi the whole time and if you listen, i mean REALLY listen, her voice drops as Usagi gets older. i betcha Junko does the same.

Who says you have to have a point? Rambling is better than having a point. Analysis without restrictions is my most beloved pastime :)

Not everything Sakura-as-a-ninja is should come from Tsunade

It SHOULDN'T have, certainly. If Kakashi had ever bothered to fish a technique out of his vast arsenal that would be suited to her and then taught it to her, it wouldn't have- but he didn't. For the most part I like Kakashi, but I see this as a major and inexcusable failure on his part.

With the exception of Lee (and possibly TenTen) each of the Genin Twelve has two teachers- their jounin master and someone else. For Neji and all the members of teams 8 and 10 it's an adult family member, for team 7 it's the Sannin.

And while there seems to be a pattern at first glance -- the (HotHeaded) Brawler, the Cool Tactician and the ~~supporting cast~~ Girl -- it's really only in surface that the teams are identical.

I think of it more as, each team is a variation of the genius/brawler/girl theme.

It SHOULDN'T have, certainly. If Kakashi had ever bothered to fish a technique out of his vast arsenal that would be suited to her and then taught it to her, it wouldn't have- but he didn't. For the most part I like Kakashi, but I see this as a major and inexcusable failure on his part.

Amen. That's Kakashi in a nutshell, I think - good man, great ninja, absolute pants at anything worth remembering.

Really, he should never have been made a teacher at all - he's shown himself as being badly suited for it on several different accounts. First, there's the fact that this man has been living with ninja bullshit and doubletalk and doublethink literally since he was old enough to tie his own shoes - any pretense of common ground he puts up with anyone who isn't totally live-breathe-and-die-ninja-lifestyle is, well, just that - a flat out lie, playing a role rather than anything he actually feels, believes, or is capable of planning on the basis of. Second, there's the point about his being such an incredible genius that he has no idea how to learn, let alone teach - he picked it up at one look, after all, why shouldn't these kids do the same? And third, and the one that really makes me cross with him, there's the fact that, for all his talk about 'looking underneath the underneath' and 'the value and neccesity of teamwork', he seems to have this deeply fixed idea of teamwork as some magical property that just happens when you bring people together... which, if you even glance at the Kakashi Gaiden, is a hell of a long way from what Yondaime was doing with his team - for once in his life, at worst possible point, Kakashi heard the words and missed the real message completely.

And Team 7 got to pay the freight.

I don't recall whether I've done any of my Sakura Character Rants here, and it's your journal anyway, Asuka-senpai, so I'll forgoe them for now - ask if you're interested anyway - but while I agree with most of the other points you've made in this I think that there's something you've missed about Hinata: The tone I'm getting from your comments is that she's fundamentally lacking in the qualities (willpower, particularly), needed for a leader, which I don't think is the case at all - after all, look at what she's working through to get as far as she already is... the wonder of the dancing bear isn't the quality of its foxtrot, after all, but that it's there in the first place.

Anyway, that's just my US$0.02.

Ja, -n

*applause*

Really! I've had some people defend Kakashi as a teacher when the attack goes to him paying too much attention to dear Sasuke. But right there you plugged all the holes up. He's the FREAKING COPY-NIN KAKASHI. Of COURSE he knows medical jutsu from when it was used on him.

There's got to be a jutsu where Naruto's lack of control and his extream power could be put to use. And Sakura? Some low level ninjutsu, or hell, he has the Sharingan, Genjutsu. Then at least he'd only be leaving one person out because the Sharingan is a Genjutsu 'device.' Sakura could learn it, Sasuke could learn it, and Naruto wouldn't have to wait till Ero-sennin took him away to learn how to dispell it.

In the end? teahcing Sasuke the Chidori and training him over Naruto for the exams was forgivable. Not teaching them shit except for how to use ninja devices (like the radio headsets via D-rank capture the cat missions) and wall and water walking, is horrible of him.

Teaching Sasuke the Chidori was not only forgivable, it was necessary. Given what Kakashi knew about Gaara, teaching Sasuke the Chidori was only sensible.

But he really should have set Sakura up with a teacher too. Just because she wasn't going to be in the main matches was no reason to let her stagnate while her teammates trained their butts off.

I thought he did teach Sakura genjutsu, though. I can't remember where, but I swore there was a comment somewhere about him doing so, when he had Naruto and Sasuke doing that running-up-the-trees practice or around then.

I think he told her that she had potiental for genjutsu but never followed up on that because of how events spiraled out of control after the 2nd Chunnin Exam.

Kakashi had to get Sasuke ready against Gaara and had the added pressure of the cursed seal and the Snake Pervert's interest in his student.

He got Naruto the best help he could find. Naruto had huge holes in his education that Ebisu could plug and the man was a professional tutor in the ninja arts. Jiraiya was better but Kakashi couldn't know or count on his interest in the boy.

Sakura got sweeped away to the side and that is Kakashi's fault, but circumstances did play a big part in his negect of her.

IIRC, Kakashi's comments about Sakura's potential for Genjutsu use were during the Bell Test - right at the very beginning. He had, at the least, months in which he could have educated her in the matter, and did no such thing.

Forget the Chidori - that's the kind of thing I was talking about when I said his worldview is so warped he can't communicate, that he was just expecting the kids to get it because it was so obvious to him - which is fucking idiotic, of course, but also really isn't his fault. Forget Ebisu - with those problems and the number of emotional tangles in his own head, it's no surprise he wouldn't realize how Naruto's rejection issues would fuck up the whole enterprise.

His job as Jounin-sensei was to instruct the Genin of Team 7 in the skills they'd need to be successful high-level ninja, and from day one, he failed to do so. I like the guy, myself, but that doesn't extend to failing to recognize when he's gone and fucked up by the numbers.

Ja, -n

/ I like the guy, myself, but that doesn't extend to failing to recognize when he's gone and fucked up by the numbers./

He tried but not enough and not in the right ways. Kakashi can't really relate to other people on a close level-- that would require a level of personal initimacy that I doubt he is capable of.

The others all are involved with their students on personal levels, paying attention to the entire team and not just their favorites.

Even Gai has done a create deal of work with his other students-- demonstrated by Tenten's professional and compentent attitude.

Yes. Gai. It's DEAD obviouse he blandantly favours mini-Gai. There's no doubt of it at all, he favours Lee more than Kakashi favours Sasuke. But he's harder on Lee than anyone else (how many times do you think Neji got punched in the face?) But he makes an effort to teach all of them even if it's specifically for Lee.

Remember the very breif flashback to Lee's Celestial Gates Training? TenTen and Neji were panting hard and had a root of a tree partially up, and were staring at Lee jumping around in joy. He taught them hard, and though Lee was the only one that succeded, well at least he attempted to teach Neji and TenTen.

Actually I wonder if Neji could learn it, because of instinct, he'd be able to see/imagine what it would do to his chakra coils and 'flintch' at it. And ever since I heard what happens if you release all the gates I was convinced that the fourth Hokage did that AND the summon at the same time /OT

That training, considering the explosive amount of Chakra, could have led to Neji discovering/inventing the Kaiten...*rambling*

XD no, I don't think that Hinata is never ever going to grow up to be a good clan head -- but at the moment, HA. She needs time and to feel like people trust her, which at the moment she isn't getting enough. Right now, despite the potential, she's not much more than a nice, sweet doormat. (and as cool and potentially canonish as that filler was... it was still filler. :p)

You know, I had a very strange dream last night involving Hinata and Sakura. Basically, Hinata was the adopted daughter of Jack from Fables. And Jack had committed some kind of crime, or murder, and Hinata and Sakura were driving around in a car that was full of murder evidence. The cops stopped them for questioning but eventually let them go because Hinata was so shy and innocent looking that she couldn't possibly be the murdered. (Sakura kept wanting to go ninja on the cops' asses and run like hell, but Hinata wouldn't let her.) Then they got away and met up with Jack again and he was getting ready to leave forever and Hinata was very sad cos she'd have no family left.

Yeah.

Also, I was ruminating briefly on the consequences of the team medic also being the team leader and wondering, would she be more conservative with sending her teammates into dangerous situations? Or, alternatively, would she actuall be more willing to push them through meat grinders, because she was fully cognizant of her ability to patch them up so long as they survived at all? >D

depends mostly on the medic's personality, I guess; if she's confident and aggressive (which might be better traits in general for a team leader), she'll probably send them out more. It's not as if the ability to be a medic is tied to certain personality traits -- Tsunade is a medic, Shizune is a medic -- so is Kabuto. I don't think what's most important is so much the "being a medic." ^^

Well, I was referring to Sakura as a medic and leader specifically, not to medic-nins in general.

Mikke-love, I love you, but seriously, WTF.

I loved the way you put KibaHinaShino, since that's alot how I see it but explained less coherent in my head, and slightly more gay. XP Shino: Resistance is futile.

I've never found Team Gai very interesting, mostly because each person has stronger ties with their own people than with each other. Neji has Hinata and all that jazz, Lee has Gai and his Tenten, like you mentioned, is supporting cast. There's nothing really tying them together as a team, so NejiTenLee baffles me.

*tries to imagine an all-girl team. Hmm...*

InoHinaSaku? o_o where...hmm. Ino's the bruiser, Hinata's the quiet planner, and Sakura backs both of them up? ooo. oh snap! they could be a really fucking stealthy team, if they all managed to get though those early kunoichi classes. X3 poisonous flowers, tea-serving...daaaamn.

Ehh, I dunno. I think it might just be a milder female version of the Naru/Kiba/Hina team. Ino and Sakura might occasionally pay Hinata some mind, but unlike Kiba and Naruto they don't even have the inert protectiveness towards the other girl. They're both selfish, self-centered girls to a certain point, especially when it comes to each other.

If it were Tenten instead of Hinata, I think it would work better. She seems very determined and down-to-earth, so when either of them begins to dig their nails in the other, she'll tear them apart and make them go on.

I dunno. 9_9 i was sorta going off the personality aspects of the team dynamics. there's the loud tough one, the quieter thinker, and the background one. Hinata is a background girl personalitywise. Ino's a little louder than Sakura, and Sakura is a details kinda girl.

^^ but again...only going off what little i really know. you may be right; i have no clue.

Post-timejump I think they'd make a good team, since Sakura seems to have calmed down some, but pre-timejump I don't think she'd be as willing to let Ino outplay her. We haven't seen much of Ino post-timejump so maybe she'd let Sakura assume the role of leader, maybe not.

Aw, don't put down your own ideas. ^^ I don't usually delve this much into characterization either.

I disagree. Even though Ino and Sakura have their rivalry thing going, they're still girls. Girls know how to be nice to other girls, so I think they would treat Hinata right. They'd still be at loggerheads with each other, of course, but I don't think they'd leave Hinata in the lurch.

They wouldn't leave her out like the boys would, but Sakura and Ino have a rivalry/friendship with the other that they don't have with Hinata. Just like in a Sasu/Naru/Kiba team, Sasuke and Naruto would pay more attention to each other than to Kiba. They won't be mean to her, they just won't focus well on the traits each of contribute to the mission. As Asuka said, Hinata "has to be encouraged, flattered, otherwise she doesn't dare use [her talents]," and I don't think Ino or Sakura would.

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naruto teams ramblings (also kinda sorta maybe a little ep 175)

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