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I was reading over my post on Frog/Snake/Slug patterns in Naruto teams and trying to figure out Team Hebi/Taka...

Which is which? D: Slug seems to be the one who balances out the two, and Snake and Frog the rivals with competing views on life... Slug tends to be the healer. Rin, Konan and Sakura also get to be more passive (Sakura working on that, when Kishi lets her); Tsunade isn't passive much, but she displayed a weakness of character when she abandoned Konoha even though she fixed that afterwards. Snakes are Orochimaru, Nagato, Kakashi, and Sasuke -- the cool/cold ones with a tendency to be pessimistic and an innate better-than-you-ness to cover for their lacking ideals; Frogs are Jiraiya, Yahiko, Obito and Naruto -- the hot-tempered idealist underdogs.

... So.

Slug!Karin:
-She's a chick.
-She's a healer. (albeit in a fucked up way.)
-She rarely fights and is less efficient/does less damage than her teammates.

Snake!Karin:
-She's got a rivalry with Suigetsu. It's not really just bickering and teasing like Jira/Tsu or Saku/Naru; they really don't get along and are always trying to show each other up. (especially re: how useful they are to Sasuke.)
-~~She's a date rapist. (see also Orochimaru. >D)~~
-She can get downright vicious, and REALLY cold-hearted (was Oro's warden, did not seem to care what would happen to the prisoners...)
-While her chakra locator trick seems to be rare, it's not powerful (also Juugo's curse and suigetsu's waterness seem to be innate too), but she covers it up with her superior attitude.
-No ideals of her own. When she worked under Oro she had Oro's ideals, now she's following Sasuke's. If she has a goal that isn't "to be X's undrling", so far it's a secret.

If Karin is the Snake, Juugo is the Slug.

Slug:Juugo:
-He's passive.
-He's also a healer!
-~~He's a friend to all living beings~~~ Wants to protect people (from himself) and does not like conflict, which has shades of the Slug's usual "let's all get along plz?")
-No ideals of his own (save "to see what Sasuke does with his potential" which isn't a goal that's linked to the snake/frog/snail pattern.)

Snake!Juugo:
-His psychopathic side?

He doesn't have a rivalry with anyone and his philosophy on life so far seems to be "I'm bad, I should be locked away from everyone else, they don't deserve it. I'll be faithful to the one who protects me from myself." which doesn't seem like a strong stance on anything. It does have shades of pre!pain Nagato, but that only means he would only become a Snake if Sasuke died. Though one can also argue that Kimimaro did die on him and that still didn't give Juugo the resolve to do anything but lock himself up and never come back out ever again.

In that vein, for a Frog, Suigetsu can be one hell of a bastard. We won't find any high-aspiring morals in THAT one. XD Though -- he might be of the "killing random people is nothing" school of thougth, but he also displayed strong loyalty when he proposed he would hold back Killer Bee while the other two dragged Sasuke to safety.

So... my thoughts so far is that they all have underlying traces of the patterns, but they're more like slythergriffs or huffleclaws than "pure" one thing or other. Karin is a SnakeSlug, Suigetsu is a FrogSnake and Juugo a SlugSnake. ... that team really does have a surabondance of snakeitude. Rather appropriate, I guess. XD What's really funny is that we can already see that Snake!Sasuke's influence is actually pushing them AWAY from Orochimaru's cold-hearted me-me-me-ness -- Karin and Suigetsu now worry so much for him they are ready to cooperate and risk themselves for his sake.

... Is that need to have a team to stay balanced/grow pure ideals a component of the Snake too? Was Orochimaru's defect his lack of secret empathy for his team? Kakashi did learn to care, which was his redemption even though it came late, and Nagato's flaw is that he cared *too much*. (Sasuke's snake-related flaw is that he's trying not to care, but he's failing at his failing. XD) The presence or absence of the team is what seems to have the biggest impact on their philosphy of life. The frogs don't seem to care in that self-destructive way and are pretty solid in what values they hold dear even when they're alone, though then they lack resolve to see it through -- Jiraiya's flaw is that he stopped caring about Orochimaru (enough to try, at least) and lost the strength to strive for his ideal, Yahiko cared so much he killed himself and abandoned his ideal, and Obito cared too late, and ... Naruto breaks the pattern, because he's not trying to stop caring at all. He might be caring too much as well, but it's presented as a positive force and might be what's unique to him, the way he's going to break the cycle, and with him it's not either I care or I fulfill my ideal -- he plans to do both.

team Sannin = not enough; team Pain = too much; team Yondaime = too late? HMMMMM.

It even fits with the Slugs -- Tsunade cared more about her grief than her team, Konan loves Nagato and Yahiko and/or feels so guilty she just follows them everywhere, Rin... well okay, Rin was just pretty empty a character since the whole thing was mostly about Kakashi/Obito, so i'm not sure how she fits the "too late". She failed her teammates in a general sense, but in that particular way? Not enough details to tell.

So... Suigetsu has his own (brutal, not that high-minded) goal/ambition (the seven swords), and Karin has no goal except selfishness and self-interest, and when placed in a team they both learn empathy and morals...

... via... Sasuke's example? ahahahaha oh Sasuke. You're such a goddamn Leaf, no matter what you say. XD ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

ANYWAY. So. Karin and Juugo. Karin could fit as both -- on first glance she seems to be a Slug just on her gender and lack of fighting ability, but her personality fits more with the Snake, as does her relationship with Suigetsu; Juugo is the other way around, though I mostly see him as a slug on account of his normal personality and behavior.

But that's, hrrm, I wonder if I'm missing things. Anyone got more ideas?

And now I'm looking at the other genin teams and trying to force them into the pattern even though they're not part of the Sannin line of descent/destiny. What can I say, it's fun. XD

Shino = Snake, Kiba = Frog, Hinata = Slug (Cool one, Hot tempered one, Conciliatory one)
Neji =Snake, Lee = Frog , Tenten = Slug (Genius w/bad motives, underdog w/good motives, ...??)
Shikamaru = Snake, Ino = Frog, Chouji = Slug (unmotivated genius, motivator, conciliator.)

Oh team Asuma. ♥__♥

... What do y'all think about Team SandSibs? I think Temari is the Slug because she's the conciliator, which is interesting since she's more plot relevant and her behavior is more antagonistic than Kankuro, who seems rather... not exactly laid back, but, not as energetic as a Frog usually is, and definitely not as idealistic. Maybe Temari is both Slug and Frog -- conciliatory with SnakeGaara and challenging with the rest. No, wait, Sakura is like that too. Okay, Tem, you're pure Slug I guess. But Kankuro as Frog, hrrm. I really haven't thought much about his character, so I have zero clue how that fits him.

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For the sand sibs, why can't Gaara be the Frog or Frogsnake one? He's a genius, yais, but he's also got the high ideals (now) that the other two support and follow. It's been a long time since I read canon with the three of them, but I think Kankurou was pretty conciliatory too, at least in regards to Gaara again. Iunno...anyway....

Yeah but he started out with the inborn better-than-you (shuukaku) and the "I don't care about the rest of you guys" which are pretty snakey. Now he has learned better, and I think that's an echo of the character arc Sasuke should get -- learn to care about his people -- but... When he was at his most strongly pattern'd he was Snake, with his very snakey excesses and lacks. Now he's a lot more balanced because of some Frog injection (*tries not to have pervy thought*) -- I meant, an ideology and optimism, but at his core I don't know if that means he's not a snake at all anymore. Perhaps the pattern is only strongly obvious as long as the characters are unbalanced and immature.

I'm pretty sure massive truimautic tragedy is kind of like a space time distortion in your theory. It can reverse one's polarity (turning a snakey Kakashi into a frog) or crush all three into a quantum singularity blackhole of superdupercrazysauce....aka- Gaara. Or it creates a giant dust cloud that seems to go on forever and obscures everything good about the series and leaves you feeling cold....like Pain.

... *choke* XD XD XD

Tem would indeed be the Slug; there was a line at some point about how she kept trying to hold the family together. I think it's fair to think of the slug as the "glue" for each team - the nurturing one holding them all together. Kankurou just never showed his frog side until time-skip, if only because we didn't know him well enough till then. It also gives you your reason for Tenten - she cares enough about both boys to hold the team together despite how screwed up they've both been at times.

HMM! I guess Kankuro being willing to risk his life to save his little brother and thinking about Gaara's new "I will protect people!" attitude means he's finally letting his froggytude emerge. HMM.

As for Tenten... Hm. Well, she HAS been shown admiring both of their fighting abilities -- at least she's good about seeing the good in them both. *ponders* I don't know about "holding the team together", I can't remember a scene that shows that in action?

....Well something has to have kept Neji from just gutting Gai and Lee in the early days.

I kinda chalked this one up to Gai himself. For all his goofy actions he does seem to have a good idea of what makes Neji tick... XD;; It was probably a group effort, though. >_>

XD I'm pretty sure both Neji and Shino are at some sort of point where they can withstand ANY stupidity that happens. Like seriously, they could walk in on 100 Lee Bunshins (impossible, but still) doing various exercises naked and either one of them would just close their eyes, shake their head, turn around, and walk away. That is the power of having to work with Kiba/Lee for that long. (I love them, don't get me wrong, I just also Know That Guy Who's Just Like Them and know the patience)

I'm also just kind of lol-ing at Ino being the Frog for her team. I mean yes, it's true, but I'm hearing her screaming about being compared to Naruto like that. It only reinforces the idea that she needs to realize she's not like Sakura, though...

they could walk in on 100 Lee Bunshins (impossible, but still) doing various exercises naked and either one of them would just close their eyes, shake their head, turn around, and walk away.

... the mental picture, IT IS PERFECT. ♥

It's something I really like about the sakuino friendship -- how Sakura started out wanting to be like Ino, and then whe she became herself instead it was Ino who sort of started to wish they could still be the same, and that kinda pulls her toward wanting to be like Sakura instead. Mm role reversal. ♥

I have to say I loled at the thought of Sasuke inspiring Hebi/Hawk to be better people....Does that make him their Sensei? *Snickering*

Uh, I dunno.....I think I'd go with Tem as slug too. I'd have more to say...but I think the 12 page paper has eaten my brain up entirely

I think team Sand would have a bit of everything in them.
With maybe the exception of Temari, since she's seems pretty pureblood slug to me.

Gaara, even though what he was was probably the snake, I would say has a lot of slug in him now. He even showed snippets before, like when he stopped Kankuro from pounding Konohamaru ~~oh god bad mental image~~. Though that was probably just fear-instilled...

Kankuro, well. I wouldn't call him a full frog. He likes to fight; doesn't have many morals aside from protecting his brother ~~even if he denies~~/finishing his mission.. I would say he's snakefrog, tema would be slugfrogsnake because she does have a bit of everything if you look for little details. And Gaara.. I would say he's Snakeslug..

Sand makes my head hurt.

He even showed snippets before, like when he stopped Kankuro from pounding Konohamaru oh god bad mental image. Though that was probably just fear-instilled...

yeah, I read that as "don't make us noticed now" more than "he's a kid". Considering what gaara was like at the time he wouldn't have cared much XDD

♥

Hm. Not sure you really can put Team Taka on the same paradigm, because it's not a team of three, it's a team of four. And while you could argue that the other groups have a fourth... Take away Sandaime (the Sannin), Yondaime (Kakashi's group), Jiraiya (Pain et al) or Kakashi (Team Seven), and the Frog-Snake-Slug dynamic sticks. But (despite an earlier comment =P) take Sasuke out of Team Taka, and it'll fall apart. Sasuke might be the leader/linchpin of the team, but he's not the Sensei.

With that said? Oh yeah. Sasuke is a Leaf to the core. He's just good at putting on the "totally not a Leaf" hat and lying like a rug when strategically useful.

And Kankuro is Frog, definitely. One of the defining Frog traits is loyalty, no? That's Kankuro to the core.

Hmm, you're right that right now if we take Sasuke out the team will explode, but I think they're still learning to cooperate and if they get some more time to bond they might grow into something more mutual.

Sasuke is in a sort of hybrid teammate/sensei place, I think. At the moment Kakashi said that's what he was -- a coworker, not a sensei anymore -- so maybe we can go with using that as a parallel, but since he's BEEN their sensei it doesn't fit entirely either. They're never going to forget that dynamic they used to have and it will color their interaction, whereas team Taka doesn't have that to fall back on re:Sasuke. Hrrrrrrm.

Oh, good point about the loyalty.

XD Well, Tenten has a less forceful personality than her teammates?

Not by much, and she's never shown depressed or doubting herself. She might be less immediately noticeable, but from the little we've seen she's very self-assured. Which doesn't prevent her from being a Slug, but it doesn't tag her as one either.

... ooh. Actually the Slug tends to start out as that, and part of their growth is learning to be more solid inside -- like Hinata and Sakura and Tsunade did. HMMMM. In that optic she's a slug who's already done with that part of her growth. HMMMMMMM.

I ♥ U when you theorise =3 ... it makes me want to get out my pad and paper and start drawing diagrams...

The way I see it (in my opninion) is that Team 7 are the last almost-failed team in the line. They're the "cursebreakers" (hopefully)and any team that descends from them is hard to place in the pattern.

Instead, I see "Snake team" (Hebi) and "Frog team" (team Konohamaru)and maybe we'll get to see a slug team. Although I can't see it.

Your use of harry potter terminology makes me fit the pattern to ron, harry and herminone. And it really really works,(Harry lost parents, came to hogwarts with a thirst to prove himself, and has a snakey man interested in him bwahahahahaha. sorry.)In fact, if you look at them, it gives you an interesting take on part of what could be in sasuke's head...

... ooohh. I like your idea! (and am now busy trying to come up with three slug OCs who would still make a good balanced team for Sakura. Damn it, bunnies.)

Sasuke is such a slytherin. But in the "will do anything to get to his goals" way, not the "evil" or "no morals" way. He can be extremely moral in his own way, actually. >___>

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