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Naruto manga

-AHHH SASUKE DONT BELIEVE HIM AT HIS WORD ON EVERYTHING! NO! BE ANGRY AND SUSPICIOUS AND PISSED PLZ PLZ PLZ

-Wow, is Tobi butthurt or what? "ZOMG I only wanted to PROTECT THE CLAN ... but, you know, only when it follows me and supports my desire to lead the most powerful clan of the area. I totally helped Itachi kill the clan because they didn't go to war against Konoha -- you know, that war I was pushing TO PROTECT THEM." It makes sense rly. ~~spurned lover anyone?~~ I have to say, my "ooh, Madara is interestingly badass" is kinda plummeting there. Buuuuutthuuuuuurt.

Apart from that, I have nothing much to say, I'm waiting to see how Kishi will develop the "Itachi is GOOD" angle. IMHO He can't be "good" ever, cause dude. He killed all those kids and old people too, and that might have been on orders, but if so then why did he go missing nin? (and why did the conspiring Konoha people allow Sasuke to keep living? If they truly wanted all the clan erased from existence, it would have been easy to get rid of him. Maybe Sandaime put his foot down in a "if I find him dead I KEEL U" way...) ... though that brings new light to Itachi deciding to hightail it instead of finishing off Gai/Kurenai/Asuma/Kakashi/Jiraiya. Eh.

-- anyway yes he can't be GOOD because he was still kinda torture-happy and ruthlessly manipulating, but it's still interesting to have him be torn between two decisions.

Also I keep hoping that we'll get a situation where Madara killed his brother to protect the clan, but Itachi killed the clan to protect his brother. Or something like that. *ship ship*

So, yeah, still waiting to see more before I really decide whether I like or hate the new developments. I haven't been reading very closely anyway, I mostly just go "oohh" at broken!Sasuke and hope we'll get to see Naruto and Sakura sometime soon. I'll read it all over again when we reach the end of the UCHIHA REVELASHUNNNS bit and make my opinion then. Not really interested in debate at the moment.

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That is my impression of this chapter too, Madara seems to paint himself as a "victim" of Konoha's machinations, I kinda like the "butthurt" because it just fits. His story is so different from what Itachi said especially when it comes to the younger brother. Sasuke *should* be suspicious. And Itachi can't not be totally good, mindfucking his poor younger brother is totally not cool even if he did it to save him (twisted, pretty much).

It is funny that when Madara confronted the first Hokage, Kishimoto shows he did it with the Kyuubi so I still think that he had something to do with the Kyuubi showing up later ( I went back to check on Jiraiya's thoughts on this and he was probably right). So Sasuke is confronted with what is real and what is not. If his brother did not trust Madara completely, then he should do the same.

I was going to write about this chapter in my lj later but who knows, right now my head feels like stuffed with cotton thanks to my sinus infection I have so coherency is not my friend.

Yeah, he did a lot of whining. Bawww! My clan didn't follow me into war, they don't appreciate me enough, I'll teach them! Bawww! I didn't get to be Hokage, they chose the guy everyone actually liked best and not me! Bawwwwww! I was too stupid to go to the hospital to switch my brother's eyes with mine and he died and that makes it everyone else's fault. Oh, Madara, I liked you better before.

Yah, the "They THOUGHT it was the Uchihas summoning the Kyuubi BUT THIS TIME IT WAS AN ACCIDENT RLY!" is very suspicious. XD I think that's the first outright lie he's said to Sasuke. Everything else could easily be a subtle blend of twisted perspective and omissions, but that one... Hah.

Awww ;__; get better soon! *wraps in blanket*

I may be mistaken, but I counted the fox's tails during the little peek into the fight with Shodaime, I only counted eight tails. That may have just been a counting error on my part (being in band, it isn't always necessary to count past eight...) but perhaps the attack really was a natural disaster with the Kyuubi being on a power trip from getting his ninth tail.

Or Madara really just is a lying bastard out to make Sasuke's mind break even more so than it is.

It's okay, I counted 8 too. My guess is that Kyuubi didn't have the time to power up ala Dragon Ball Z and reach a power level over 9000. That's why all the tails aren't there.

Bet you that makes as much sense as anything else Kishimoto is going to say.

Other!Jess had a theory that Itachi had to go missing-nin because he didn't kill himself after the massacre. That's sort of shiny. Or maybe because he didn't kill his brother.

On the other hand, if Sandaime was against it, he might have been doing it on Danzou's orders, and believing in him, and knew he wouldn't have a place there after the attack.

I don't know.

I'm still trying to figure out why, if little brother was REALLY willing, they didn't, say, go to a doctor and avoid the killing and misunderstandings.

In otherwords, I think Madara is butthurt and a bit full of shit, yes.

... I want to have sex with this theory. :O

It's sort of a fun theory. u.u

He's not missing-nin because he killed all his clan--he's missing-nin because he didn't.

Agreed! <3

As for me, I'm still kinda twitching on the BADFIC plot twitst. "Itachi is good because he was following orders" And if Tobe/Madara turns out to be a body hopper in Obito's body ....
... unto infinity much ... >_>''''''

(I prefer my 'sometimes bloodlines makes you crazy but there's a pill for that too' angle <_<;;;)

I don't see how his following orders means he was good. o_o There are nuances between EVIL FOR NO REASON and NARUTO-WORSHIPPER, yanno. We still haven't seen enough to judge whether Kishimoto is using that plot twist to its full potential. Any of the Uchihas could be lying, there could be more nuances we haven't seen, it might be a competition between Itachi and Madara over who gets to mindfuck Sasuke the most. Just because some badfic writers misused it (like they misuse EVERYTHING) doesn't mean it can't be written well ever.

It also doesn't make Itachi accepting the mission magically better. He could have said no, tipped off his clan, and let them run off. How is it "good" of him to kill them all anyway? Either he had his own plans, or he agreed with the guys who ordered it done, or he was spineless enough to go along with something like that despite his misgivings, and in either case he doesn't get to blame others for his own decisions. How does that absolve him of everything he's done since then?

Trust in the crazyface! Even if Itachi's motives were coincidentally beneficial to some so-called "good side" or if he was pushed into doing bad things by some evil meanies, he's still a crazy clan-killing motherfucker in the end anyway.

Oh, I know that he's still evil! Trust me I know *that's more then half the attraction >>* It's just that I guess I'm a little jaded by the "Itachi+following orders= Good Guy x1000000000 to the nth degree 8D"
And after all the rest of the BS Kishi's been putting us through, maybe I'm loosing faith in the Naruto series as well.

But I like the "who's the best mindfucker, Itachi or Madara?" thing you pointed out. Maybe I'll stick around for that.

... As well as see if Kishi ever points out if Itachi did have a crush or something like it on Naruto, since he never really did try and catch the boy......

...Goodtachi makes Elict sad fangirl D:

LOL @ icon

Would've been the best plot twist in the series so far o/

This twist, or at least how I'm interpreting it, kinda fits into Itachi's twisted psyche. He kills off his clan before they can go rogue and so he saves the clan's honor/name...and at the same time he sets them up as tragic victims and himself as the evildoer. In a warped mind such as his, this would make the most logical of sense. After all...what real sane thinking can you expect from a child made into captain of an assassination squad at the age of...what was it, ten?

I think the only way I can believe Good!Itachi if we some split personality going on here. ~~Which actually isn't that bad considering the selfcest, mmmmmmm~~~

"Butthurt?" (*amused*) I'm not sure I get it, but it sounds funny. X3

Madara seems to be coming off as kind of a psycho. His wording about "I just wanted to protect the clan" right after saying, "What man would willingly harm his own little brother?" Makes me think that his bro wasn't quite as willing as he claims (or possibly believes).

Itachi might not come across as "good" per se, but maybe heavily tarnished or grey. Like the whole thing might not come across as black vs. white. Both sides have aspects of both.

I also like the idea of Itachi being torn between two decisions. ;)

And that situation you mentioned in small font . . . I never thought of that! Awesome! I'm totally IN LOVE with things like that!! ♥ =D ♥ =D ♥

Personally, while seeing broken!Sasuke gets to me (in . . . several different ways 9_-), I really want to see him kick some ass ("Don't screw with me!") and then see Naruto kick his ass in turn ("Down, bitch. I alone screw with you.").

*slink from lurkdom* sorry to pipe in but I haven't seen anyone mention this yet. Sasuke should be suspicious because he TALKED the Kyubii, and the demon fox clearly had met Madara, since he knew he had an evil aura, I believe is how he put it.

Well, in the chapter it showed Madara fighting the Shodaime on the back of Kyubi. There are other hints too, but I haven't read it straight through in a long time, so everything is somewhat disjointed. Since he wasn't surprised at meeting the Kyubi, though, (and other things I can't remember) I assume Sasuke knew about Uchiha's power over the beast. Maybe it was in that tablet thing in the Uchiha's meeting place under the shrine?

I don't know, I don't know at all. I myself am a spineless little wimp, and while tons of people have ranted about being outraged over specific shippuuden chapters, I just kind of take it in stride. Sometimes I think, "Oh Kishi, why have you done this to us? What were you smoking?" but mostly I think, "Kishi is the author. It's his artistic vision, so let him have it."

I, so far, am liking the twist. There's so many possible reasons everything for why everything fell into place-- I just wanna sit back and let Kishi spin his story. The only problem is that text ccan be read in so many different ways-- so the nuances behind Madara's words in his story and the nuances behind Itachi's words in his story are unknown. Either could be lying, either could have the most warped point of view in existance.

I do not, however, think for one minute that Itachi can ever be justified, EVER, as "good". Even if he is "good", he's one crazy son of a bitch or at least confused in the head. Who knows, maybe it was the strain of killing his entire clan when he was thirteen that drove him crazy? Maybe he was directly under Danzo in the ANBU's Root division, where their only point of existance is the mission? Maybe Madara was the crazy son of a bitch in the first place and poisoned Itachi's mind?

Everything can be explained in so many ways, I don't really know what to believe. I'll just wait for Kishi. But in the meantime, I have this mad urge to scour the entire series for any mentions of the Uchiha whatsoever and see what theory they tally up with.

Just saying, cos no one else's mentioned it yet, does anyone else think it's weird that ONLY those have mokuton (Hashirama)and Uchihas (Madara)can control Kyuubi? (or that people can control Kyuubi at all >_>)

I'm seriously thinking that Sasuke will find any way he can to make Itachi become the bad guy again. That.. may involve Sasuke believing in Mandara's story even if its all suspicious. He spent his entire life believing Itachi was this evil, evil dude (and he probably still is on quite a few levels). Don't think he's ready to let go of that yet :/ Clinging to a "MY CLAN WAS OPPRESSED. AND YOU KILLED THEM BITCH" is probably how he'll, uh, cope with it.

I only have one concern right now, seriously:
KISAME AND SUIGETSU
WTF is going on with them. ARGH! That and yes, the lack of suspicion is pissing me off

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